Yes,god,without getting too moralistic,how low does one have to have sunk to look at this suffering and instead of trying to help think "there's a nuisance I don't need"
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I've just seen the sufferers on the news. The sufferes had chopped a tree down in order to block a road. Then when a lory couldn't pass, the sufferes attacked it with a sythe In order to get aboard. All to flee war torn France. Oh, hang on a minute there isn't a war in France is there? Perhaps you could enlighten us now that you reside in France.
It is well documented that they have decided to go to the UK. They have been offered asylum in other countries and less than 6% have said they may accept going to another country.
Why the UK should be the question you are asking. Apparently come hell or high water including truck highjacking they intend on succeeding.
So they aren't fleeing France, they just want to get to their destination.
Why the UK should be the question you are asking. Apparently come hell or high water including truck highjacking they intend on succeeding.
So they aren't fleeing France, they just want to get to their destination.
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The Scottish technical community has spent the last 3 days trying to stop the deportation of one of our hardest working techs back to Nigeria. He has been here since he was five, has no contacts there, any family that were there are all dead, all because the home office have targets to meet and know where he was because he applied for citizenship. It's totally screwed up. It's obvious neither France or uk give a ****. It's shameful. We are not full, or poor. We are fing loaded selfish bastards with £3000 electric bicycles clinging to a mythical past that was ****.
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The Daily Mail this morning (Apart from the same Britain booms after Brexit headline and editorial of the last few days)
"
Car rental firm Avis slammed for imposing £2 ‘Brexit tax’ even though we haven’t left the EU yet
He told the Sun: 'I said we haven't Brexited yet and refused to pay.
'Prior or post-Brexit, it is not right.'
A spokesman at Avis said the charge had been added when Sterling fell after the EU referendum.
They admitted that other drivers could have been charged the fee.
A firm spokesman later said the fee was a system error and it was a 'miscommunication' by staff to call it a Brexit tax. "
Well it certainly turned a minor currency adjustment into click bait for an increasingly desperate newspaper.
Strange that they have managed not to notice the way Banks here are reducing the interest on accounts though, and many prices are rising during the "After Brexit Boom"
And considering this month is the annual School Holidays and families will be spending far more than usual, this boom can hardly be more than them having a bit of a fling while they still have the chance.
"
Car rental firm Avis slammed for imposing £2 ‘Brexit tax’ even though we haven’t left the EU yet
- Lord John Krebs charged £2.19 by Avis in France due to 'leaving the EU'
- Oxford Professor found extra fee as he returned car to Marseilles airport
- Car firm admitted other drivers may have paid the additional tax
He told the Sun: 'I said we haven't Brexited yet and refused to pay.
'Prior or post-Brexit, it is not right.'
A spokesman at Avis said the charge had been added when Sterling fell after the EU referendum.
They admitted that other drivers could have been charged the fee.
A firm spokesman later said the fee was a system error and it was a 'miscommunication' by staff to call it a Brexit tax. "
Well it certainly turned a minor currency adjustment into click bait for an increasingly desperate newspaper.
Strange that they have managed not to notice the way Banks here are reducing the interest on accounts though, and many prices are rising during the "After Brexit Boom"
And considering this month is the annual School Holidays and families will be spending far more than usual, this boom can hardly be more than them having a bit of a fling while they still have the chance.
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And before you get your knickers in knots Avis is incorporated in the USA not in France so we know where the surcharge comes from.
Bloomberg has France more euroskeptic than the UK
perhaps the chaos caused by the brexit referendum is a blessing in disguise for the 27. The EU is accused of being too ambitious, but should it chuck some members out to regain popularity?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-26/it-was-a-union-for-the-ages-until-suddenly-it-wasn-t-is-europe-lost
perhaps the chaos caused by the brexit referendum is a blessing in disguise for the 27. The EU is accused of being too ambitious, but should it chuck some members out to regain popularity?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-26/it-was-a-union-for-the-ages-until-suddenly-it-wasn-t-is-europe-lost
I very agree, @tillson,france isnt war torn but evidently you havent spoken to or known refugees,its more cimplex than it may seem from that cosy entitled armchair.
It is very badly explained here what the EU is useful for and right wing politicians tend to say "oh it isn't us it's the EU to blame". Sound familiar? Called "passing the buck" in what flec calls English... 
So basically if your washing machine breaks down then it is the EU's fault. Everything is actually!
So basically if your washing machine breaks down then it is the EU's fault. Everything is actually!
If I were genuinely trying to leave behind conflict and all the dangers which accompany it, my main aim would be to get to a place of safety. Getting my family away from the barrel bombs, nerve gas, bullets and persecution would be the absolute overriding priority. Nothing else at all would matter.
What is difficult, if not impossible to believe is that the people in Calais have said, "thank you so much for your very kind offer of asylum it really is appreciated. If you don't mind, as an alternative I'm going to chop this tree down, block the road and then attack the next lory driver with a scythe in order to coerce him into giving me passage into the UK."
The people doing this are highly likely not to be asylum seekers and if you believe that they are, you are naive to the point of needing protection. These tree felling scythe wielding young men are almost certainly low skilled economic migrants with precious little to offer. How do we know what type of person is amongst these economic migrants? Can we say for sure that no murderers, rapists, child molesters or terrorists exist? I can't, and despite any slurs or accusations of racism which will inevitably follow these indesputable facts, neither can you.
Bloomberg ar guilty of not keeping up with events as Cameron came back with an agreement that the UK would not be involved in future further integration of the EU.In all future treaties.Bloomberg has France more euroskeptic than the UK
perhaps the chaos caused by the brexit referendum is a blessing in disguise for the 27. The EU is accused of being too ambitious, but should it chuck some members out to regain popularity?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-26/it-was-a-union-for-the-ages-until-suddenly-it-wasn-t-is-europe-lost
You would imagine that they should have known that.
But they are highly likely not to be refugees. Refugees settle in a place of safety. Refugees do not attack innocent people with weapons once in that place of safety. Refugees do not attack the authorities with bricks, bottles, and lengths of in the place offering them help.
Low skilled economic migrants intent on illegally gaining entry to the UK will employ such tactics though.
[QUOTE="tillson, post: 325292, member: 991"
The people doing this are highly likely not to be asylum seekers and if you believe that they are, you are naive to the point of needing protection. These tree felling scythe wielding young men are almost certainly low skilled economic migrants with precious little to offer. How do we know what type of person is amongst these economic migrants? Can we say for sure that no murderers, rapists, child molesters or terrorists exist? I can't, and despite any slurs or accusations of racism which will inevitably follow these indesputable facts, neither can you.[/QUOTE]
Of course we can't, any more than we can say the same from any section of the resident population.
So your suggestion is?
For instance check whether some of these incidents are really spontaneous and not organised by right wing groups to spread panic and dissent?
After all if ISIS people are indeed among them, it hardly serves their purpose to concentrate the public mind against them when they are trying to sneak into the country does it?
As you can see, creating a conspiracy theory can be made to work both ways, so I just created one to counter yours.
Both have the same validity
Very little.
The people doing this are highly likely not to be asylum seekers and if you believe that they are, you are naive to the point of needing protection. These tree felling scythe wielding young men are almost certainly low skilled economic migrants with precious little to offer. How do we know what type of person is amongst these economic migrants? Can we say for sure that no murderers, rapists, child molesters or terrorists exist? I can't, and despite any slurs or accusations of racism which will inevitably follow these indesputable facts, neither can you.[/QUOTE]
Of course we can't, any more than we can say the same from any section of the resident population.
So your suggestion is?
- Send them back?
- Cut down the roadside trees?
- like Wells Fargo in the wild west have someone armed aboard the lorries riding shotgun?
For instance check whether some of these incidents are really spontaneous and not organised by right wing groups to spread panic and dissent?
After all if ISIS people are indeed among them, it hardly serves their purpose to concentrate the public mind against them when they are trying to sneak into the country does it?
As you can see, creating a conspiracy theory can be made to work both ways, so I just created one to counter yours.
Both have the same validity
Very little.
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here's a different way forward than speculating and projecting ones fears into others (which we all do, to be fair). Have you done any qualitative research (phenomenological explication is the jargon I believe)? Do some. Get your - evidently liberal, inclusive caring, and hell, no I wouldn't dream of being ironic on a forum like this - self to Calais, just for one weekend. distribute some aid, have coffee with a few refugees. The conversations you'll have will be the closest thing there is to the protocols that usually inform qualitative research. You'll come back even more "open minded" than you are
Of course we can't, any more than we can say the same from any section of the resident population.
So your suggestion is?
- Send them back?
- Cut down the roadside trees?
- like Wells Fargo in the wild west have someone armed aboard the lorries riding shotgun?
Just look at the probabilities. Their conduct and the gender / age prifile makes it highly probable that they are ecconomic migrants, not asylum seekers. Probable almost to the point of certainty.
Fair point regarding practical suggestions. As you have pointed out in the past, we have woefully inadequate resources to patrol our shores and The Witch decimated the border agency during her failed years at the Home Office. Repairing this damage will not be an overnight exercise, but the sooner we start, the sooner the job will be done.
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Just look at the probabilities. Their conduct and the gender / age prifile makes it highly probable that they are ecconomic migrants, not asylum seekers. Probable almost to the point of certainty.[/QUOTE]
Why does the fact that they are young and fir lead you to that as the logical conclusion rather than that older folk simply don't have the stamina to make such an arduous journey?
You are seeing what you want to see, stereotyping as usual.
And if they want to sneak into the country to work evil surely drawing attention to themselves is the last thing they are going to do?
And where is your practical suggestion? admit only the elderly if they have their Parents with them?
I don't want to take afternoon tea with weapon wielding economic migrants. I'll leave that to our celebrities when they drop by on their feel-good visits.
Just look at the probabilities. Their conduct and the gender / age prifile makes it highly probable that they are ecconomic migrants, not asylum seekers. Probable almost to the point of certainty.
Fair point regarding practical suggestions. As you have pointed out in the past, we have woefully inadequate resources to patrol our shores and The Witch decimated the border agency during her failed years at the Home Office. Repairing this damage will not be an overnight exercise, but the sooner we start, the sooner the job will be done.[/QUOTE]
tillson, we both know that no Government will make the necessary investment to control either our borders (which would require a bigger fleet of patrol boats that the 370 boats the RNLI have,) or pay for the bureacracy needed to control the work permits and movement of the best part of a million people, and trace the illegals who have slipped in.
Considering successive governments want immigrants, it pays them to turn a blind eye to the reality of the numbers involved.
The job will be given the appearance once again of being begun, then once again forgotten, another Brexit promise broken.
If you don't ask them how their friends in ISIS are doing they might respond by not hitting you over the head as you sip your tea?
yes, its much better to stick to ones preconceived ideas than to venture into the world and discover a shared reality