Brexit, for once some facts.

tommie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2013
1,760
600
Co. Down, N. Ireland, U.K.
Just what I've been saying for a while now. It's why the Leavers are so terrified of another referendum, knowing they'd lose this time.
.
Sorry flecc but you`re living in your own little `bubble` there..

Petition
Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019.


We are wasting Billions of pounds of taxpayers money trying to negotiate in a short space of time. Leaving the EU in March 2019 will allow the UK good time to negotiate more efficiently. The EU will be more eager to accept a deal on our terms having lost a major partner.
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259,345 signatures
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STOP BREXIT

It's so desperately simple. The Government's standard response to these kinds of petitions is "The British people voted to leave the EU and the government respect that decision". BUT, the government themselves DO NOT KNOW the outcome of that decision, so how can they possibly respect it???
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98,753 signatures
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
In case anyone wonders where the inspiration for much of the leave opposition to another referendum , wonder no more

"“Was it not a referendum?” the Russian president said. “Someone disliked the result, so repeat it over and over? Is this democracy? What then would be the point of the referendum in the first place and what is the sense of direct democracy?”

Sounds dreadfully familiar, I wonder if it came with the "Bung" he sent to the Leave campaign before the referendum as helpful additional material for future use?
Unlike our politicians, Vlad thinks ahead....
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Hmmm...so the Irish have blinked first - the Brussels Mafia won`t be pleased!!

UPDATE: Irish Government Minister appears to let the cat out of the bag that checks away from the land border would work

Ireland have once again confirmed that they have no plans to erect a hard border on the island of Ireland even if there is no Brexit deal. The Irish Government published their contingency planning for no deal yesterday, with Foreign Minister Simon Coveney confirming that Ireland has no plans to build a hard border in the event of no deal. The backstop is spurious – there is not going to be a hard border whatever happens…

The EU have shot themselves in the foot over this one. They and their puppets Leo and Simon insisted that the backstop was the only solution, but here we have a solution to the Irish border which doesn't involve a hard border or annexing Northern Ireland.
This will be held up by Brexiteers as proof that the EU was playing political games over the NI border issue all along and Theresa May fell for it.
What are you saying that is new here?
The checks wherever they are carried out will incur massive delays and traffic problems, talk about clutching at straws.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
PART TWO:

AVIATION



Worst case:

Without legal measures being taken by both sides before March 29, flights between Britain and European destinations could be disrupted when the UK leaves the bloc. Some lobbyists have even suggested that air traffic could be grounded, although that claim is heavily disputed. Flights from the UK to other destinations could also be affected if the right to fly is based on an existing EU-wide agreement.

Best case:

The European Commission announced yesterday that it would table legislation in the new year to allow British airlines access to its airspace and airports for up to 12 months, but with restrictions on transit flights. The British government has prepared the legislation necessary to reciprocate. Both sides say they are now reasonably confident that disruption can be kept to a minimum.

Unknown factor:

The UK’s flying rights to countries such as India, Israel and Vietnam are based on European Union agreements. These will have to be renegotiated and ratified by March to prevent potential disruption. Any EU dispensations will also be temporary and Britain will have to negotiate a long-term aviation deal with the EU.

TRADE DEALS



Worst case:

About 40 of the UK’s trade deals with countries outside Europe are dependent on its membership of the bloc and will fall away in the event of no deal. They include important export markets such as South Korea, Canada and South Africa. The government said last October that these would be transferred into bilateral agreements in time for March in case of no deal. However, just one trading partner, Switzerland, has so far formally agreed to replicate its EU deal for Britain after Brexit. If this process is not completed by March 29 then British exporters could find themselves suddenly paying World Trade Organisation tariffs in key markets, disrupting trade and putting Britain at a significant competitive disadvantage.

Best case:

A number of countries, including Canada and South Africa, have committed to replicating their trade deals by the March deadline even if they have not yet been formally agreed.

Unknown factor:

Until they are published we will not know whether Britain’s trading partners have forced concessions as the price of getting the deals agreed in time. International trade negotiations are unsentimental and, given Britain’s weak negotiating position, the new deals could be less favourable than the current arrangements.

MEDICINE



Worst case:

Every month 37 million packs of medicine enter the UK from the rest of the EU and the pharmaceutical industry is spending hundreds of millions of pounds on extra warehouses to stockpile supplies. However, there is a shortage of the cold storage needed to house modern biological medicines. Delays crossing the Channel are considered the biggest risk to medicine supplies and if disruption continues then stocks built up to last six weeks may not be enough.

Best case:

This is an area of contingency planning that has had the most attention, and early-warning systems are in place to identify shortages before they become critical. The EU would also not want to see drug shortages — and the complex pharmaceutical supply chain would affect drug availability in other European countries.

Unknown factor: Stockpiling plans have been based on normal levels of demand but such supplies could run out much faster if patients try to hoard medicines in fear they could run out. This is why the government has issued rules to allow ministers to control what pharmacies can supply in a worst-case scenario.

TRAVEL



Worst case:

British travellers who want to hire a car in Europe could be turned away unless they have a £5.50 international driving licence that must be applied for in advance from a post office; passengers could also be refused travel if they have less than six months on their passport and will need a US-style visa waiver. The maximum stay for a UK visitor will be three months. Anyone wishing to take a pet will need to make preparations up to four months in advance. Britons travelling to the EU will no longer be covered by pan-European healthcare that allows them to be treated in hospitals free of charge. Hefty mobile phone roaming charges may return.

Best case:

Car rental firms may choose not to rigidly enforce the rules. The government is also hopeful that eventually the EU will recognise Britain as a “listed third country” for pet passports which would result in little change to the current arrangements. Ministers have brought forward legislation to allow the European healthcare insurance card to continue to operate in the UK after Brexit and are hoping that other EU countries will reciprocate. Ministers have also said that in the case of a no-deal Brexit the government would legislate to cap roaming surcharges at £45 per month.

Unknown factor:

Areas such as immigration control and access to healthcare are decided at a national level so the UK will have to negotiate reciprocal deals with each of the 27 member states. These could vary by country, causing confusion for travellers.
Congratulation on the biggest cut and paste this year, but it doesn't actually portray Brexit as being beneficial, does it?
You actually made a good case for continued membership of the EU!

OK, so once again I ask where is your argument that proves Brexit will actually be more beneficial than the present membership of the EU?
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Well isn`t that just Tough!! :D:D

They should have thought of that before bending over to the gangsters in Brussels
Tommie that applies in northern ireland too, or did you bend over to the gangsters in Brussels a well?
The backstop was intended to avoid that disruption but you didn't think of that did you?
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
You're not so bright sometimes now are you. That was NOT the logical deduction from what I said. The logical deduction was that Remoaners see problems everywhere.

Give it time.
And what has remoaners to do with wishing to be part of the EU. .. has your spelling checker a problem or are you trying to make as point ..instead of just being trying?.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Petition
Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019.
I have to assume that you think that petition is sensible, despite saying:

The EU border in Ireland to be managed simply by having a dual Euro / pound currency as legal tender in both the North and South. Exports to the South would be dealt with in Euro and vice versa when importing to the North. Rates fixed at time of the deal.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
PART TWO:

AVIATION



Worst case:

Without legal measures being taken by both sides before March 29, flights between Britain and European destinations could be disrupted when the UK leaves the bloc. Some lobbyists have even suggested that air traffic could be grounded, although that claim is heavily disputed. Flights from the UK to other destinations could also be affected if the right to fly is based on an existing EU-wide agreement.

Best case:

The European Commission announced yesterday that it would table legislation in the new year to allow British airlines access to its airspace and airports for up to 12 months, but with restrictions on transit flights. The British government has prepared the legislation necessary to reciprocate. Both sides say they are now reasonably confident that disruption can be kept to a minimum.

Unknown factor:

The UK’s flying rights to countries such as India, Israel and Vietnam are based on European Union agreements. These will have to be renegotiated and ratified by March to prevent potential disruption. Any EU dispensations will also be temporary and Britain will have to negotiate a long-term aviation deal with the EU.

TRADE DEALS



Worst case:

About 40 of the UK’s trade deals with countries outside Europe are dependent on its membership of the bloc and will fall away in the event of no deal. They include important export markets such as South Korea, Canada and South Africa. The government said last October that these would be transferred into bilateral agreements in time for March in case of no deal. However, just one trading partner, Switzerland, has so far formally agreed to replicate its EU deal for Britain after Brexit. If this process is not completed by March 29 then British exporters could find themselves suddenly paying World Trade Organisation tariffs in key markets, disrupting trade and putting Britain at a significant competitive disadvantage.

Best case:

A number of countries, including Canada and South Africa, have committed to replicating their trade deals by the March deadline even if they have not yet been formally agreed.

Unknown factor:

Until they are published we will not know whether Britain’s trading partners have forced concessions as the price of getting the deals agreed in time. International trade negotiations are unsentimental and, given Britain’s weak negotiating position, the new deals could be less favourable than the current arrangements.

MEDICINE



Worst case:

Every month 37 million packs of medicine enter the UK from the rest of the EU and the pharmaceutical industry is spending hundreds of millions of pounds on extra warehouses to stockpile supplies. However, there is a shortage of the cold storage needed to house modern biological medicines. Delays crossing the Channel are considered the biggest risk to medicine supplies and if disruption continues then stocks built up to last six weeks may not be enough.

Best case:

This is an area of contingency planning that has had the most attention, and early-warning systems are in place to identify shortages before they become critical. The EU would also not want to see drug shortages — and the complex pharmaceutical supply chain would affect drug availability in other European countries.

Unknown factor: Stockpiling plans have been based on normal levels of demand but such supplies could run out much faster if patients try to hoard medicines in fear they could run out. This is why the government has issued rules to allow ministers to control what pharmacies can supply in a worst-case scenario.

TRAVEL



Worst case:

British travellers who want to hire a car in Europe could be turned away unless they have a £5.50 international driving licence that must be applied for in advance from a post office; passengers could also be refused travel if they have less than six months on their passport and will need a US-style visa waiver. The maximum stay for a UK visitor will be three months. Anyone wishing to take a pet will need to make preparations up to four months in advance. Britons travelling to the EU will no longer be covered by pan-European healthcare that allows them to be treated in hospitals free of charge. Hefty mobile phone roaming charges may return.

Best case:

Car rental firms may choose not to rigidly enforce the rules. The government is also hopeful that eventually the EU will recognise Britain as a “listed third country” for pet passports which would result in little change to the current arrangements. Ministers have brought forward legislation to allow the European healthcare insurance card to continue to operate in the UK after Brexit and are hoping that other EU countries will reciprocate. Ministers have also said that in the case of a no-deal Brexit the government would legislate to cap roaming surcharges at £45 per month.

Unknown factor:

Areas such as immigration control and access to healthcare are decided at a national level so the UK will have to negotiate reciprocal deals with each of the 27 member states. These could vary by country, causing confusion for travellers.
Rather than viewing the travel as a success story, can you not see that it is a full vindication of what I and others have been saying for months. ? .. The current situation is that UK airlines will be prohibited from taking off from EU airports,post March 2019. It is proposed that there will be new emergency legislation, tabled in the period January to March ,which will allow some continuation. Now there is a big difference between proposed and passed . I would be hopeful that it will be passed.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
I have to assume that you think that petition is sensible, despite saying:

The EU border in Ireland to be managed simply by having a dual Euro / pound currency as legal tender in both the North and South. Exports to the South would be dealt with in Euro and vice versa when importing to the North. Rates fixed at time of the deal.
The euro is an operational currency in NI particularly in towns like Newry. Less so in Lisburn and Belfast. Likewise the pound sterling is currency in Dundalk. However the exchange rates can be laugh inducing!!. The currency is not the issue,and the person who considered it so is uninformed at a level that they should not be allowed out without a minder.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Delays crossing the Channel are considered the biggest risk to medicine supplies and if disruption continues then stocks built up to last six weeks may not be enough.
Yes - a serious issue. Just the other day we were reassured that, should it prove necessary, aircraft will be chartered to fly in supplies. Obviously, we have to accept that they could arrive at random airports, at random times, depending on the flight of the bumblebees/phoenix/drones.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
No deal? No problem: From the Chairman of JCB - I mean - what does he know about business right?

View attachment 28202
Oxygen James....JCB make earthmovers and tractors,what Bamford fails to mention that the HS tariff on these products is zero. I don’t think he would be so keen on WTO if he was selling cars (10%) or foodstuff(35-80%).
Shipping tractors is not a time sensitive product,who cares if their tractor takes another couple of days to reach its destination,flowers from Holland or Tomatoes from Spain or vegetables from Lincoln could be rotten.
It’s not big companies that have most to fear from no-deal,they have the existing technology to quickly adapt,its the little guy who is not used to changes due to tariffs.....some of my own customers have already said they will stop exporting.
KudosDave
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
Just what I've been saying for a while now. It's why the Leavers are so terrified of another referendum, knowing they'd lose this time.
.
Before the last vote 'Remain' had a solid 8 point lead for about 2 weeks.

And we all know how that ended.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
Oxygen James....JCB make earthmovers and tractors,what Bamford fails to mention that the HS tariff on these products is zero. I don’t think he would be so keen on WTO if he was selling cars (10%) or foodstuff(35-80%).
Shipping tractors is not a time sensitive product,who cares if their tractor takes another couple of days to reach its destination,flowers from Holland or Tomatoes from Spain or vegetables from Lincoln could be rotten.
It’s not big companies that have most to fear from no-deal,they have the existing technology to quickly adapt,its the little guy who is not used to changes due to tariffs.....some of my own customers have already said they will stop exporting.
KudosDave
OK. Fair enough. Those are good points.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
It is a brilliant result for mankind, but would it be incorrect to suggest that China is called Red China for a reason?..( Hint nothing to do with skin colour ).
It's economics changed from being 'red' to full-blooded capitalist just about the same time their levels of poverty started to plummet.

Which of course was my point.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
This is awful news! I might not get my "Do it yourself Doom kit No Deal Brexit for Christmas!"

The polls are clear: support for staying in the EU has rocketed

For most of this year, polls have shown remain ahead of leave, typically by four to six points. But in a referendum between staying in the EU and leaving on the terms that the government has negotiated, staying enjoys an 18-point lead: 59-41%.

Still waiting for someone to come on with a decent agument in favour of Brexit being a good idea......Hello....is there anyone still thinks it's a good idea?
Surprise surprise the Guardian has the polls saying Remain is ahead. Strike me down with a f*******g feather.
 

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