Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Know any good Chinese makes of freezer?

(We actually do want a new freezer but I've not noticed any from China - at least, not obviously so.)

They take up too much container space for the price they can fetch here. Lots of the white goods on our market are made in Italy (by Candy, Indesit, Zanussi, often other brand labelled) and there's BEKO from Turkey.
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[flecc]

Possibly surprising tweet from a former minister:

Nick Boles MP (@NickBoles)
If at any point between now and 29 March the government were to announce that ‘no deal’ Brexit had become its policy, I would immediately resign the Conservative whip and vote in any way necessary to stop it from happening.
December 18, 2018

Some Tory ministers and other MPs have joined him in saying that. T.M. has a major revolt on her hands if she ventures near to a No Deal conclusion.
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[flecc]

We don`t legally have to pay £39billion despite what you read in the papers.

The legal commitment is about £19 billion.

The £39 billion has to be paid if we accept May's EU deal .
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[flecc]

All we want is a reasonable trade deal. It’s not that complicated.

The trade talks are the next two stages of the Brexit talks, but we have to resolve stage two on how we are to depart first. Then the trade agreement talks start.

We agreed to this order of procedure in the first place when the Brexit talks started.
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[Fingers]

The trade talks are the next two stages of the Brexit talks, but we have to resolve stage two on how we are to depart first. Then the trade agreement talks start.

We agreed to this order of procedure in the first place when the Brexit talks started.
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Nothing is agreed till everything is agreed. That’s what she said. Of course it was a lie.

What May organised was literally worse than no deal. Everyone can see that.

So WTO it is and start from scratch.

The sky won’t fall in.

 

[Danidl]

I would find it incomprehensible that a Bank worth it`s salt would go out of the country in search of Baliffs, let alone employ a mob of dodgy paramilitaries - but you may know more than me on this one.
Your last para re violence is rubbish, why? what for? by whom? against what?
Straw man argument that..

Like I say my only information is newspaper articles. But there is sufficient information that the "baliffs"were recruited from NI and a private "security " firm based in Lisburn. Now remember that a number of them were in hospitals,so their accents and indeed the licence plates in the fans would have identified the location. Like I say, that strikes me as plausible,as getting local thugs for an activity such as evictions in rural Ireland,would be highly fraught.
You might choose to believe it a straw man argument, but neither I nor it would appear John Major agree.

 

[Fingers]

Like I say my only information is newspaper articles. But there is sufficient information that the "baliffs"were recruited from NI and a private "security " firm based in Lisburn. Now remember that a number of them were in hospitals,so their accents and indeed the licence plates in the fans would have identified the location. Like I say, that strikes me as plausible,as getting local thugs for an activity such as evictions in rural Ireland,would be highly fraught.
You might choose to believe it a straw man argument, but neither I nor it would appear John Major agree.

With respect. And genuinely with respect. What has this got to do with Brexit?

Are you insinuating that the troubles are about to return? Because of Brexit?

This is the silent, although not so silent leprechaun in the room that is meant to scare us because of the implication....

It’s an old scare tactic. Christ we probably invented it.

I think the more interesting fact that came out today on news night was a government white paper that said 80% of Ireland’s trucks go through the UK. So failing some massive Berlin air drop organised by the EU you will be caught up in the supposed lorry park in Kent come April 1st.

It’s not going to happen.

 

[Fingers]

The ironing ...


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/18/belgian-pm-charles-michel-resigns-no-confidence-motion

 

[wheeler]

The ironing ...

Women's work.

 

[Danidl]

With respect. And genuinely with respect. What has this got to do with Brexit?

Are you insinuating that the troubles are about to return? Because of Brexit?

This is the silent, although not so silent leprechaun in the room that is meant to scare us because of the implication....

It’s an old scare tactic. Christ we probably invented it.

I think the more interesting fact that came out today on news night was a government white paper that said 80% of Ireland’s trucks go through the UK. So failing some massive Berlin air drop organised by the EU you will be caught up in the supposed lorry park in Kent come April 1st.

It’s not going to happen.

Well I did not introduce the topic..read back and you will find that it was our northern friend Tommie who did.

You might choose to believe that the troubles part 2 will not re emerge . But neither I , John Major, or the head of the PSNI share that optimism. Enough time has now elapsed that the romance of that period is starting to fill young heads,and they don't recall,..(how could they) , the horror. . The event in Roscommon is fuel to such fantasy. May I say with a little respect, if your age is indeed 40 and you only have peripheral knowledge of Ireland and the border counties, then this is a topic you know nothing about.

Yes the majority of Irish exports to the mainland of Europe, pass via the "landbridge" of Dublin Liverpool, or Holyhead onto the North Wales motorway or via Rosslare onto the Southern Wales motorway and then via the channel l tunnel or the RoRo ferries. This is particularly the case for time critical fresh cargo. The fastest direct ferries take 16 to 18 hours, and leave one in Western Brittany or Cherbourg. It would add on about 6 hours ,which is very inconvenient when getting lamb to the Paris market. I have been aware of this for some 2.5 years , and have been warning about it.
The problem remains as bad whether the holdup is in Newry or in Holyhead.
What you need to get your head around is that it is going to happen, unless the UK gets real.

 

[Zlatan]

Well I did not introduce the topic..read back and you will find that it was our northern friend Tommie who did.

You might choose to believe that the troubles part 2 will not re emerge . But neither I , John Major, or the head of the PSNI share that optimism. Enough time has now elapsed that the romance of that period is starting to fill young heads,and they don't recall,..(how could they) , the horror. . The event in Roscommon is fuel to such fantasy. May I say with a little respect, if your age is indeed 40 and you only have peripheral knowledge of Ireland and the border counties, then this is a topic you know nothing about.

Yes the majority of Irish exports to the mainland of Europe, pass via the "landbridge" of Dublin Liverpool, or Holyhead onto the North Wales motorway or via Rosslare onto the Southern Wales motorway and then via the channel l tunnel or the RoRo ferries. This is particularly the case for time critical fresh cargo. The fastest direct ferries take 16 to 18 hours, and leave one in Western Brittany or Cherbourg. It would add on about 6 hours ,which is very inconvenient when getting lamb to the Paris market. I have been aware of this for some 2.5 years , and have been warning about it.
The problem remains as bad whether the holdup is in Newry or in Holyhead.
What you need to get your head around is that it is going to happen, unless the UK gets real.

Is your scenario under May's deal or no deal..??
I still don't see why remainers are not all getting behind the current agreement from EU. Let's face it, if EU have agreed to it it can't really be leaving.
In doing this I do see it as remainers driving us toward exactly what remainers do not want.
I totally agree it's high time for UK to get real. May's deal may not be perfect for either side, it might even be seen as bad, but so far it's unique in having good points for all of us.
Both sides clamouring for victory will bring about defeat for all. Time to compromise. Get real.

 

[oldgroaner]

not surprising with the monopoly remainers have demanded on righteousness...

Oh Zlatan how can you have the bare faced effrontery , not to mention no sense of irony what to ever to come out with that?
From your very first post of all you have assumed the attitude of "Thought Policeman" and been critical of all and sundry and set yourself up as judge and jury on the behaviour of everyone else.
And you blame remainers for having the attitude you suffer from in spades?
Very droll

 

[oldgroaner]

Is your scenario under May's deal or no deal..??
I still don't see why remainers are not all getting behind the current agreement from EU. Let's face it, if EU have agreed to it it can't really be leaving.
In doing this I do see it as remainers driving us toward exactly what remainers do not want.
I totally agree it's high time for UK to get real. May's deal may not be perfect for either side, it might even be seen as bad, but so far it's unique in having good points for all of us.
Both sides clamouring for victory will bring about defeat for all. Time to compromise. Get real.

Compromise by asking for Article 50 back, now that makes sense

 

[oldgroaner]

I don’t believe that Theresa May is serious about no deal,she is playing politics,it was starting to look that a second referendum was becoming the likely scenario,if she suggests that no deal is a possibility she has got the ERG on her side,hence why JRM supported her in the house.
She needs to get parliament into a position where her deal is considered preferred to no deal ,the second referendum got in the way.
It also undermined Corbyns position because he can no longer seek a no confidence vote against the government because it could also lead to a second referendum ,which he realises would lose him any possibility of a GE.
If it wasn’t playing games with our country the political chess moves are very interesting,but it could all go horribly wrong and real people’s lives be wrecked,May and Corbyn seem unconcerned,none of it is in the ‘national interest’
KudosDave

As I mentioned much earlier Fear will get May 's deal agreed to

 

[oldgroaner]

Is your scenario under May's deal or no deal..??
I still don't see why remainers are not all getting behind the current agreement from EU. Let's face it, if EU have agreed to it it can't really be leaving.
In doing this I do see it as remainers driving us toward exactly what remainers do not want.
I totally agree it's high time for UK to get real. May's deal may not be perfect for either side, it might even be seen as bad, but so far it's unique in having good points for all of us.
Both sides clamouring for victory will bring about defeat for all. Time to compromise. Get real.

It's actually the worst deal possible as it prolongs the agony, but she'll get it through because of fear.

 

[oldgroaner]

They only need 20 or so Tory MPs to vote against it. Remember. The vote will be about Mays deal. Not no deal. So labour SNP etc will say Mays deal is worse than no deal. And technically we’re not voting for no deal.

The money means very litthe. It’s just numbers. We can always print more.

Just like we did for the banks. The cat is out the bag on that score. And don’t forget the EU has only just stopped it’s 2.6 trillion....yes that’s trillion money printing program.

Hopefully some sensible heads will find a way in time. They usually do. All we want is a reasonable trade deal. It’s not that complicated.

Sensible heads? after the referendum result? and a parliament of Conservatives? a reasonable trade isn't that complicated?
Amazing, you must believe in miracles, and trade deals only take on average nine years........

 

[oldgroaner]

They only need 20 or so Tory MPs to vote against it. Remember. The vote will be about Mays deal. Not no deal. So labour SNP etc will say Mays deal is worse than no deal. And technically we’re not voting for no deal.

The money means very litthe. It’s just numbers. We can always print more.

Just like we did for the banks. The cat is out the bag on that score. And don’t forget the EU has only just stopped it’s 2.6 trillion....yes that’s trillion money printing program.

Hopefully some sensible heads will find a way in time. They usually do. All we want is a reasonable trade deal. It’s not that complicated.

Sensible heads in this Parliament? some hope,and then there is this "We "you keep going on about but don't actually represent, and last of all it could take the rest of this century to duplicate the trade deals we have now.
Here is something for you to think about

If May's deal succeeds we will be pretty nearly tied completely to the EU to survive and we have no other trade deals within a several year time frame, and will pretty much require that the EU agree with any future deals we make.

We can't really compete on a parity with what the EU can offer as a trade deal, can we? perhaps if we ask nicely they will let us pick up a few scraps that are too small for them to bother with.

We will even have to trade very carefully where WTO rules apply

I won't be long before the situation becomes intolerable to a lot of people at all levels of society, even the ones who imagine it won't affect them.

 

[oldgroaner]

Sensible heads eh?
In the Telegraph
"Dominic Raab Give businesses tax breaks to help weather a no-deal Brexit with the £39bn we would no longer pay the EU

Too little too late and a grave error of judgement International Reputation reputation wise

Further down on the same page is a more realistic piece
"Business watch political infighting 'in horror' with just 100 days to go until Brexit"

 

[oldgroaner]

And here we see the leave version of Project Fear at work in the Express
"

100 DAYS TO GO! May veers towards NO DEAL BREXIT
as clock ticks on Britain's time in EU
With MPs still deeply divided over Theresa May’s deal and no clear majority for any form of split, the Government revealed that the full raft of its contingency planning is now being implemented. Downing Street insists leaving with a Withdrawal Agreement is still the most likely scenario. But unless Parliament rallies behind the Prime Minister’s unpopular plan, Britain will be headed for a hard Brexit on March 29, 2019, and will leave with no transition deal.

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Guardian too
Troops on Stand by for no deal Brexit

Britain’s economy could be plunged into chaos unless MPs stop playing politics and back the prime minister’s Brexit deal, the country’s five leading employers’ groups warn today. The cabinet yesterday agreed to escalate preparations for a no-deal Brexit, including putting 3,500 armed forces personnel on standby and hiring thousands of extra civil servants.

What a wonderful example of Project Fear on Steroids!