Brexit, for once some facts.

RobF

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Sep 22, 2012
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Yes, I know all that... I'm just wondering how you see it being possible for his company to make more money, without the UK making some more concessions?

ie... it'll cost you and I more money to keep his company manufacturing in UK, if they are to remain competitive.
Isn't that what negotiation is all about?

It's perfectly possible for an agreement to be reached which has a nett benefit to both sides.

We have to assess the benefit to us of extra investment in the Sunderland factory, subtract the cost of any concessions we make to get it, and decide if what's left over make the concessions worthwhile.

The strong cards are not all in Nissan's hand, which is why Ghosn has pitched his public remarks at the level he has.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
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Good grief, you still managed to miss the point!

I asked you what was new, in Ghosts statement this is old stuff, not news.
He is simply repeating the same things that were said a few days after the referendum.Nothing new at all, yet you make out something has actually changed.
What do you imagine you are pointing out I am not well aware of?
Who said there's anything new?

Not me.

Anyway, nothing anyone posts will sway you from your Brexit doom scenario, so you carry on.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Who said there's anything new?

Not me.

Anyway, nothing anyone posts will sway you from your Brexit doom scenario, so you carry on.
Nor you from your Pipedream it seems[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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trex

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May 15, 2011
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Jeremy Corbyn can always asks for the question of article 50 to be debated in the House of Commons. I suspects he lends his discreet support to the brexit cause.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
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The opportunity is for Ghosn - a skilled operator in his field - to improve the profitability of his factory.

Nissan has no love for the UK, it never did, it only built here because we offered better terms than other countries in Europe.

There have been benefits to the North East, and it's almost certainly in both parties' interests for the factory to remain and prosper.

Negotiations over the future are a poker game, as I said, Ghosn is a skilled operator, so it's up to our side to match that.

But he's already all but ruled out any nuclear option with remarks about hoping common sense will prevail.
Meaning quite obviously full and free access to the EU Market.
 
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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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The opportunity is for Ghosn - a skilled operator in his field - to improve the profitability of his factory.

Nissan has no love for the UK, it never did, it only built here because we offered better terms than other countries in Europe.

There have been benefits to the North East, and it's almost certainly in both parties' interests for the factory to remain and prosper.

Negotiations over the future are a poker game, as I said, Ghosn is a skilled operator, so it's up to our side to match that.

But he's already all but ruled out any nuclear option with remarks about hoping common sense will prevail.
Of that we are all agreed,commonsense will prevail....commonsense seems to be in short supply at the moment.
KudosDave
 
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trex

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the BBC has an article drawing parallel with Switzerland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37155058

Basically, the Swiss voted in February 2014 for control of its borders and limit immigration. According to their constitution, Swiss government has until March 2017 to implement the 'will of the people' but the EU don't want to renegotiate. Their solution seems to have another vote, claiming that although the population voted to limit immigration but the details how this is going to be implemented were not made clear at the time of the vote. Sounds familiar? well, our government could be forced into proposing a new vote like Denmark, Ireland, France and Holland have done before. Common sense?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Basically, the Swiss voted in February 2014 for control of its borders and limit immigration. According to their constitution, Swiss government has until March 2017 to implement the 'will of the people' but the EU don't want to renegotiate.
This was what started this thread 211 pages ago, my posting the BBC Radio 4 program that spelled out these facts of the Swiss situation.

So we've come full circle!

That radio program is still available from my original post on this link.
.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
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This was what started this thread 211 pages ago, my posting the BBC Radio 4 program that spelled out these facts of the Swiss situation.

So we've come full circle!

That radio program is still available from my original post on this link.
.
It can't have been very popular, it has only generated 4213 posts, and had 22,945 views so far.
Obviously nobody is interested in Brexit :D
 
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Croxden

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Jan 26, 2013
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North Staffs
Brexit? What's that?
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Brexit? What's that?
I'm not sure there is an answer to that, it's a bit on an unknown quantity, but don't worry we have our top Diplomat (Boris) able to apply his undeniably unique tact and diplomacy, and by the sound of it Farage is getting impatient and has threatened to return to the fray.
That'l lern 'em! as the Americans say.
If that doesn't get the job over quickly, nothing will!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,163
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It can't have been very popular, it has only generated 4213 posts, and had 22,945 views so far.
Obviously nobody is interested in Brexit :D
Indeed. However I shouldn't be too disappointed, 86 days at an average of 49 posts per day.
.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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here for once is something interesting in the Daily Express
"
‘We want you back!’ Eastern Europe launches mass campaign for migrants to return from UK
EASTERN European migrants living in the UK are being urged to return to their homelands - with politicians using the Jackson 5 song ‘I want you back’ used as a slogan.
Continued westward emigration has created a ‘brain drain’ in the east of the continent, which is suffering economically due to a lack of skilled workers and students.
Now Latvia has launched a campaign to reverse the emigration tide, using as a slogan the 1969 classic , which includes the lyrics: “I was blind to let you go, I need one more chance”.

Other countries in Eastern Europe have launched similar campaigns.
There are around 700,000 Polish-born migrants living in the UK, along with 80,000 Romanians, 115,000 Lithuanians and 65,000 Latvians - potentially-lucrative populations their home countries are desperate to entice back.
The ‘brain drain’ costs Eastern European countries an average of seven per cent of their gross domestic product every year - with the loss set to increase to nine per cent in the near future. "

Lithuania-Based Rokas Grajauskas of Dankse Bank said: “The diaspora living abroad represent a huge untapped potential for their countries of origin.”
Note the words I have changed to bold: how very odd that the people allegedly only working as fruit and vegetable pickers are revealed to be rather more valuable than that.

I wonder what has prompted the Express to publish this information, surely not a change of heart regarding immigrants, and wanting to hang on to a valuable resource after all their rhetoric?
Not a popular point of view in some quarters I suspect.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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Why we wont leave..

Even for an optimistic Brexiteer , the last few days have been difficult. Many people who voted out are already feeling a bit betrayed as certain fundamental truths sink in. The “uncertainty” is already affecting the real economy as we see. Project Fear probably understated some of the dangers, though overstated others absurdly, the latter as former Governor of the Bank of England Mervyn King has said (a calm voice in these frenetic times).

Before long this uncertainty will feed through even more concretely from the slightly abstract world of financial markets and exchange rates through to jobs, savings, and, above all, the value of people’s homes, which is where most people’s wealth is stored (especially some of the less well-off voters who opted for “Leave”). This is really why I suspect Brexit won’t, in the end, come to pass – because most voters can’t afford it in the short run, whatever the longer term advantages. Call it blackmail by the financiers or the Establishment if you wish, but it is a fairly nasty ransom note all the same.


If there is a general election and Labour get in (strange as it may be) maybe with SNP and Lib Dem support, they will not want to apply to leave the EU formally without going back to Brussels for a deal. Indeed they would be quite desperate to do so and would claim the general election result gave them a mandate for that. We’d almost certainly have a second referendum then, and probably a narrow Remain win. As was recently reported triggering Article 50 is not a done deal,it can be reversed,so if May overcomes all the obstacles to trigger it (unlikely)then Corbyn could untrigger (is that a word)it.

We all know that if there was a referendum on holding a second referendum, the people would be in favour of having another vote. It is certainly the general view in Parliament, and of course we now have the Scottish and Irish dimensions to the problem now crystallising, as well as economic realities. People want to think again, and the politicians have a duty to let them.


Some of Boris’ Tory colleagues now think he didn’t believe a word of what he was saying in the campaign, and that the whole thing was just a vehicle for his ambition. Hence, perhaps, his confused flip-flopping on whether he wants us in the Single Market. If so, then one can see him executing an almighty U-turn in about six months’ time and recommending a Remain vote with him leading the opposite campaign to the one just gone. He has the shamelessness, ambition and dexterity to do just that, in true Churchillian style.

Just cannot imagine me voting Labour and letting Corbyn in! But voting for Boris,whats worse?
KudosDave
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Why we wont leave..
That's a very good piece in my opinion Dave with more than a little realism in it.

I agree with your premise and the longer we are struggling along rudderless, the more inclined I am to believe that in the absence of any sensible direction from the Brexit champions, there is no way to drag ourselves out of this mire other than to have a further referendum. The result of another vote, I believe, will not be close - it will be a massive rejection of Brexit.

As the PM has displayed no more party leadership on the issue than her predecessor, I'd guess she is hoping that through inaction, a degree of pain via the public's purchasing ability will eventually concentrate minds and common sense will prevail. If that scenario were to play out, it would certainly remove the sword of Damocles from over her.

After spending the whole of last weekend with mostly French people along with a sprinkling of German and Spanish, English natives much in the minority, I can attest that our continental near-neighbours just think we have lost the plot and they really don't understand how we will cope outside of the EU.

One wedding speech, (English speaker), mostly praising the 'Entente Cordiale' which has lasted well over a century, was rapturously received by the foreign contingent when it concluded with a rude French expression, something like 'putain Brexit' - I had to ask! As is usually the case, the vast majority of foreign guests spoke English adequately thus avoiding discomfort or embarrassment of the majority of UK guests.

I sincerely hope parliament decides to abort this ridiculous act of folly at the earliest.

Tom
 
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RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
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As is usually the case, the vast majority of foreign guests spoke English adequately thus avoiding discomfort or embarrassment of the majority of UK guests.
The only reason they speak English is because English, as a language, rules the world.

It's probably our biggest export.

Calling for another referendum puts you at the same intellectually bereft level as that dreadful Scottish woman who keeps on bleating about another vote until she gets the result she wants.

What if the next referendum is still out?

Presumably, you will want another, and another.

If you can have another referendum, so can I, so if yours is remain, I shall start squealing for another, and another.

Even a fool can see that's a total nonsense.

We've voted to leave a short-lived, desperately flawed, crappy little treaty organisation which has an overblown sense of its own importance.

Big deal, joining - and leaving - the EU will amount to barely a footnote when the history of our country is written.

Oh, and those wedding guests - and their children and grandchildren - will all still be speaking English.
 

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