Brexit, for once some facts.

[Wicky]

I think the desperate late Xmas shopping for better deals / in party arguments / laying herself at EU mercy is taking their toll on her.

EU says no to May on renegotiating deal

" Mrs May travelled to Brussels to make a special plea to EU leaders at Thursday's summit, but BBC Brussels reporter Adam Fleming said some diplomats described her performance as "bad" and "vague".
He added that a diplomatic note about proceedings, seen by the BBC, said Mrs May was "not really clear".

 

[OxygenJames]

Anyway I am indulging you and wasting time on a post intended by you to disrupt the debate, so next time how about being on topic?

My post was not 'intended to disrupt the debate' - it was intended to point out to you that you chastise people for doing something you do yourself.

Personally I see nothing wrong with going 'off-topic' a bit. It adds flavour and spice and makes a thread more interesting.

But if you're going to give other people a hard time for doing it - then set an example and don't do it yourself.

You could start by ignoring this post.

 

[OxygenJames]

I think the desperate late Xmas shopping for better deals / in party arguments / laying herself at EU mercy is taking their toll on her.

EU says no to May on renegotiating deal

" Mrs May travelled to Brussels to make a special plea to EU leaders at Thursday's summit, but BBC Brussels reporter Adam Fleming said some diplomats described her performance as "bad" and "vague".
He added that a diplomatic note about proceedings, seen by the BBC, said Mrs May was "not really clear".

She is a disaster. But what other choice did those MPs have? Personally I would have voted against her but I'm really not clear what good it would have done.

 

[oldgroaner]

In your opinion.

Here's what actually happened:

Old Groaner confronted somebody for being 'off-topic'. Later I noticed that he himself sent in a post that has nothing to do with Brexit.

I pointed this out to him.

With an off topic post... wow! trolling at its crudest...

 

[OxygenJames]

Once again, the world watches the undignified spectacle of a lame-duck British PM going grovelling to the EU in an effort to gain improvements to a 'deal' she only recently agreed upon.

Which countries, I wonder, will trust the UK in any matter in future after witnessing its leader welching on a deal for her own personal ends?

The country has been shamed by the UK's pathetic attempts to get something for nothing after years of whingeing and causing mischief through its representatives in Brussels.

May is a disgrace.

Tom

Yes. I think she is. But we're stuck with her for at least 12 months now - oh - unless there's a general election in which case everything changes.

 

[oldgroaner]

She is a disaster. But what other choice did those MPs have? Personally I would have voted against her but I'm really not clear what good it would have done.

It would have been in line with your usual policy of being disruptive

 

[OxygenJames]

With an off topic post... wow! trolling at its crudest...

Your definition of 'trolling' is so wide it does nothing but suit your own prejudices.

 

[OxygenJames]

It would have been in line with your usual policy of being disruptive

Yes. I tend to be disruptive that is true. Not always but a lot of the time. It's one of the things I like about Brexit (on-topic note). Brexit has disrupted the status-quo - and I like that - personally I think the status-quo needed some disruption.

 

[Zlatan]

My post was not 'intended to disrupt the debate' - it was intended to point out to you that you chastise people for doing something you do yourself.

Personally I see nothing wrong with going 'off-topic' a bit. It adds flavour and spice and makes a thread more interesting.

But if you're going to give other people a hard time for doing it - then set an example and don't do it yourself.

You could start by ignoring this post.

Never a truer word posted...
On a lighter note The Economist has just held their worst politician article..
There were just too many to chose from with Vince Cable, TM, David Cameron, Liam Fox, David Davies all good runners but there were 2 stand out candidates... Boris and dear old JC.. Boris got the accolades, just. Both (their words) have shown resounding success in letting country down.
There are some fantastic editorials in December issue. Cant post links, (you have to subscribe but at a great price at moment, £12 for 12 hard copies)
Either Brexit or Leave... Get a copy. Brilliant article on how we tend to follow our opinions than facts. Apparently facts change but opinions don't.. (again their words)

 

[oldgroaner]

Your definition of 'trolling' is so wide it does nothing but suit your own prejudices.

Actually it factually reports your behavior

 

[Zlatan]

Yes. I think she is. But we're stuck with her for at least 12 months now - oh - unless there's a general election in which case everything changes.

Does it?
JC thinks he can negotiate a better deal he can't.

Stopping article 50?? Well that's a final solution, we can stop it but can never then change back on current Art 50...
Will Tories or Labour take chance? Who knows??
IMHO the only way forward is a binary ref, with May's deal or Remain. Any 3 choice ref will make matters worse
(winner could do so on 34%) and any 3 choice could split either remain or leave, dependant on wording)
A GE actually would solve nothing and GE would not be fought purely on Brexit, especially with JC wanting to leave.

 

[Zlatan]

Actually it factually reports your behavior

Actually yours.
I ve been saying for months you and Tom have done nothing but insult, patronise and put down. Many others now saying same but you just dismiss them in same manner. You and Tom are the Troll's. Fact.
You rarely post without some insult or put down.

 

[OxygenJames]

Never a truer word posted...
On a lighter note The Economist has just held their worst politician article..
There were just too many to chose from with Vince Cable, TM, David Cameron, Liam Fox, David Davies all good runners but there were 2 stand out candidates... Boris and dear old JC.. Boris got the accolades, just. Both (their words) have shown resounding success in letting country down.
There are some fantastic editorials in December issue. Cant post links, (you have to subscribe but at a great price at moment, £12 for 12 hard copies)
Either Brexit or Leave... Get a copy. Brilliant article on how we tend to follow our opinions than facts. Apparently facts change but opinions don't.. (again their words)

Confirmation bias it is called in psychological circles. It's where you pick the facts to support whatever argument/position you're taking.

Like flat-earth believers (they actually exist) - can support their argument with 'facts'. We all do it. Why? Because there are too many 'facts' to consider and we're never sure which ones are true.

So we tend towards instinctively picking a position on a subject (eg Brexit) - and from then on we cherry pick the facts to suit that position.

Watch Prime-ministers QT anytime you like - politicians are masters at this.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"EU leaders scrap plans to help Theresa May pass Brexit deal after disastrous meeting
Theresa May’s Brexit plan was dealt another major blow at a meeting with EU leaders on Thursday night in a disastrous turn of events that resulted in them scrapping written commitments to help her pass her deal through parliament.


After arriving in Brussels with promises to help the prime minister, European leaders were left amazed when she turned up without any developed requests or ideas.

That went well, didn't it? still TM is no different to the Leave supporters we get on here who are just as clueless when you ask them for facts to support their argument or even what they want Brexit to turn out like.

 

[oldgroaner]

Confirmation bias it is called in psychological circles. It's where you pick the facts to support whatever argument/position you're taking.

Like flat-earth believers (they actually exist) - can support their argument with 'facts'. We all do it. Why? Because there are too many 'facts' to consider and we're never sure which ones are true.

So we tend towards instinctively picking a position on a subject (eg Brexit) - and from then on we cherry pick the facts to suit that position.

Watch Prime-ministers QT anytime you like - politicians are masters at this.

Still off topic and trying to disrupt the thread
And now we have an admission
"Yes. I tend to be disruptive that is true. Not always but a lot of the time. It's one of the things I like about Brexit (on-topic note). Brexit has disrupted the status-quo - and I like that - personally I think the status-quo needed some disruption."

 

[OxygenJames]

Actually it factually reports your behavior

And again - by your own definition you're off-topic. You really can't help yourself can you?

 

[oldtom]

In your opinion.

Here's what actually happened:

Old Groaner confronted somebody for being 'off-topic'. Later I noticed that he himself sent in a post that has nothing to do with Brexit.

I pointed this out to him.

Yes, that was my opinion and here is some more of my opinion:

You have nothing to add to the continuing discussion so you have chosen to be disruptive, rather than point to any benefits that might ensue if the UK leaves the EU.

It therefore follows that you are simply trolling.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Actually yours.

How's your Brexit turning out? or is that why you are off topic as usual?

 

[Zlatan]

I think the desperate late Xmas shopping for better deals / in party arguments / laying herself at EU mercy is taking their toll on her.

EU says no to May on renegotiating deal

" Mrs May travelled to Brussels to make a special plea to EU leaders at Thursday's summit, but BBC Brussels reporter Adam Fleming said some diplomats described her performance as "bad" and "vague".
He added that a diplomatic note about proceedings, seen by the BBC, said Mrs May was "not really clear".

And your preferred solution? BJ has done nothing but heckle May but offered nothing. Sounds familiar.

 

[Zlatan]

Yes, that was my opinion and here is some more of my opinion:

You have nothing to add to the continuing discussion so you have chosen to be disruptive, rather than point to any benefits that might ensue if the UK leaves the EU.

It therefore follows that you are simply trolling.

Tom

From the bigoted Troll.