Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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What do we expect of Labour MPs when one of Corbyn's sons plans on making millions selling drug paraphernalia and other is appointed by Corbyn's closest ally to work in a position paid by us. Yet, they push equal opportunity as a guiding ethos. Bull ****.
Is there even a remote danger of you posting on topic, rather than lashing out blaming all and sundry because your precious Brexit has proved non viable?
This situation was brought about by the Brexit Voters, nobody else.
Where is your pragmatic argument in favour of Brexit?
Haven't got one, have you?
 

anotherkiwi

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Jan 26, 2015
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OG, you have warned many times of civil unrest as a result of us leaving the EU. Will this civil unrest be like that currently taking place in France, who are EU members? :)
Marine Le Pen didn't win the elections so the 25% who voted for her are out in the street making trouble because tax on diesel went up (on parity with tax on petrol). The French are always out in the street complaining about something, it isn't civil unrest just a way of life :D
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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OG, you have warned many times of civil unrest as a result of us leaving the EU. Will this civil unrest be like that currently taking place in France, who are EU members? :)
Let me remind you of my forecast which was
"there will be civil unrest, let us hope for all our sakes that it is non violent., and most of it will come from pro brexit voters"

Your statement is yet another little attack on a member state of the EU, which of course has nothing to do with the organisation itself, rather than a local government
What is happening in France has nothing to do with what happens here where we are after all in your own words
"Waiting for the Goodness to Flow" not according to you any trouble.
 
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anotherkiwi

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Walking across town yesterday I did some informal statistics on people with yellow high vis jackets behind their windscreen and was surprised by the number of Mercedes Benz. Worrying about MPG and the cost of fuel isn't something you associate with buyers of Mercedes... Voting for Marine Le Pen is...

Lots of big cars, isn't this supposed to be a grass roots movement by the "little people", the ones who have been left behind, the just about managing? Of course these people may have their high vis jacket behind the windscreen in order to get through the road blocks more easily... And the "little people" often get in debt in order to buy cars that are beyond their means eating pasta and spuds at every meal so they can pay the monthly instalments.

What is very tiring in France is that everyone is always against change, it is very hard to find someone who is for change and progress. This is part of the charming je ne sais quoi I guess but it does get a little boring after a while.
 
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tillson

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May 29, 2008
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Marine Le Pen didn't win the elections so the 25% who voted for her are out in the street making trouble because tax on diesel went up (on parity with tax on petrol). The French are always out in the street complaining about something, it isn't civil unrest just a way of life :D
Oh, I see. I thought it might be the "far right" causing all the trouble. I bet there isn't a "far left" soul to be seen anywhere :)

It all looks pretty nasty on the TV.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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https://dailym.ai/2QxJIR6

A new one from DM... Thought I, d put link in for OG to click....and support May..
Great fun watching the Brexit dream falling apart, when the bought and paid for press have to beg for Voters to support their attack on the state by emailing their MP
Just shows how restricting it must be for their Paymasters when they can no longer flood facebook with targeted propaganda and they have to resort to this!
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Labour appears to actually be doing things. Quite what their game plan is, assuming they have one, I do not know. But this does represent some level of opposition:

Brexit: Labour threatens contempt action over withheld legal advice
Keir Starmer warns of ‘historic constitutional row’ if government does not place full version before MPs

Theresa May has been warned she is on course for a “historic constitutional row” unless the government releases its full legal advice on the Brexit deal.

Labour has said it is ready to combine with other opposition parties to start proceedings for contempt of parliament unless the legal opinion of the attorney general, Geoffrey Cox, is published in full.

The DUP, which props up the Conservative government in the Commons, was said to be ready to sign a joint letter with other parties to the speaker, John Bercow, on Monday unless ministers back down.

It potentially represents another hurdle for May as she struggles to win backing for her deal in the crucial commons vote on 11 December.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/02/brexit-labour-threatens-contempt-action-over-withheld-legal-advice
 

oldgroaner

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Oh, I see. I thought it might be the "far right" causing all the trouble. I bet there isn't a "far left" soul to be seen anywhere :)

It all looks pretty nasty on the TV.
Your bias is showing again tillson extremists at either end of the political spectrum are equally undesirable surely?
 
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oldgroaner

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/29/italys-first-black-minister-racist-abuse-discrimination

Perhaps EU is racist because vast swathes of its constituent countries are.
How can EU be seen as an advocate against mentioned behaviour when the very people it claims to represent are sadly missing in EU Parliament.
Just what is your point? it seems no matter how often the situation is explained to you you simply keep repeating this same mantra.

The EU cannot specify who is put forward to stand as representatives of the countries involved.
Neither can you with your mad fetish of being anti EU using any excuse.

For goodness sake post something on topic to this thread
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Classic typo of the year award for this
The DM Reporter‏ @DMReporter

COMMENT OF THE DAY: It’d be easier to take your proto-fascist declarations more seriously if you’d noticed the autocorrect error before you pressed publish.



Classic "It's the will of the Porpoise?"
And what kind of an idiot would post such insane nonsense?
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Classic "It's the will of the Porpoise?"
And what kind of an idiot would post such insane nonsense?
That's an easy one! The answer is: a fascist idiot or someone in the employ of a fascist idiot who wishes to further develop his career in gutter journalism.

There is a market for it but it's limited to err….fascists, internet trolls, racists and those with a hatred for the common people. In short, Daily Mail readers!

Tom
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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30,652
What is very tiring in France is that everyone is always against change, it is very hard to find someone who is for change and progress.
Come now, the British are the world champions for this, not just anti-progress but fighting to go backwards in time. Three examples:

Our newest rail company intending to offer scheduled train services on the national network will be exclusively using steam locomotives to pull the trains.

Jacob Rees Mogg MP, known colloquially as "the Member for the Nineteenth Century".

Brexit, an earnest desire to go back to the pre-1970s.
.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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That Keir Starmer again:

Labour poised to move May confidence motion if she loses Brexit vote


If May survived vote Labour would start seeking second referendum, Keir Starmer says

Labour would almost certainly seek a vote of no confidence in Theresa May’s government if she lost the key Commons vote on her Brexit deal in nine days’ time, Keir Starmer has said.


Keeping up the intense pressure on the prime minister in the run-up to the vote on 11 December, the shadow Brexit secretary also confirmed that Labour would begin contempt of parliament proceedings against ministers if they failed to publish the government’s full legal advice on the implications of May’s deal.


Speaking on Sky’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday show, Starmer said Labour was expecting May to lose the initial vote, given the opposition of so many Tory MPs and of her DUP informal coalition partners.


“I think the prime minister, as we all know, is going to struggle between now and that vote,” Starmer said, saying that if she lost, the PM would need to then outline her next move to the Commons.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/02/labour-poised-to-move-may-confidence-motion-if-she-loses-brexit-vote-keir-starmer
 
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tommie

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Mar 13, 2013
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Superb analysis from Hannan - NO DEAL it is!



No deal is now the only option left - and we must respond by liberalising our economy


Reforms won't be easy, but attitudes change when people feel they are being bullied

There won’t be a deal. The EU has overplayed its hand.
Clocking the defeatism of Britain’s negotiators, its representatives made deliberately harsh and vindictive demands: a lengthy period of non-voting membership, the regulatory annexation of Northern Ireland and continuing EU control of Britain’s trade and tariffs. But the United Kingdom, thank God, is a parliamentary democracy. Our MPs are not about to accept the sort of terms that a victorious power dictates to a defeated adversary.

What will happen when, as seems certain, the Withdrawal Agreement is rejected? Some talk of a Norwegian-style association, others of a second referendum, but it is hard to see either thing happening. I favoured EFTA membership from the start. Had we pursued that option after the vote, we’d have spared ourselves a great deal of trouble. We’d have recovered our trade policy, left the common agricultural and fisheries policies and pulled out of most non-economic aspects of membership. Sadly, though, we have left it too late. What is now being mooted is not a Norway-style arrangement, but Norway plus the backstop (the very thing that makes the current deal unacceptable) and, incredibly, plus the customs union, which would mean that, unlike other EFTA countries, we’d be forbidden to strike trade deals.

As for a People’s Vote (what an obnoxious name, by the way – what was the last one, an aardvarks’ vote?) even if a majority could be mustered for it in the House of Commons, there is no mechanism to turn that majority into a referendum without the collaboration of the executive. Since this government has set its face against a second referendum, there would need to be a snap dissolution, which would require the support of two thirds of MPs. Good luck with that.

Instead of fantasising about what we might ideally have wanted, let’s focus on what’s on the table. It’s possible to imagine a slimmed-down version of the current text squeaking through. A UK government – presumably led by a different PM – might go back to Brussels following a parliamentary rejection of the agreement and seek to salvage its most uncontentious aspects, such as reciprocal rights for each other’s citizens.


Almost all the objections to the 585-page Withdrawal Agreement, after all, are focused on the 175 pages pertaining to the backstop. It is that part that no self-respecting nation could accept – not least because, unlike EU membership itself, it contains no exit clause. The other 410 pages are far from perfect – they give the European Court of Justice excessive control, and no one thinks that Britain really owes Brussels £39 billion – but both sides should be able to live with them.

Will EU leaders frustrate a managed withdrawal for the sake of a backstop that London, Dublin and Brussels all say they never want to see activated anyway? It’s hard to say. Many of the 27 governments, mindful of their own prosperity, would want to respond to an impasse by extending the current technical arrangements pending further talks. But some Eurocrats would rather see everyone suffer than watch a post-EU Britain succeed.

So we need to prepare for the prospect of a disorderly Brexit. There would be costs for both sides. The euro crisis might flare up again, and the states nearest to Britain would take a hit. But there would be also be a heavy blow to the UK, which conducts a higher proportion of its trade across the Channel than anyone else.

How might we soften that blow? Our preparations are in a better place than they were before the summer. The lights won’t fail in Northern Ireland. Planes won’t be denied landing slots. It’s true that, to the frustration of some ministers, the Treasury has refused to invest in new customs infrastructure. Then again, why should Britain want additional customs checks? The obvious response to a no-deal Brexit is to remove all our trade barriers.

That was what turned Singapore from a poor, equatorial island into a gleaming metropolis. Singaporeans went from having half our income per head in the 1950s to nearly twice today. Why? Because in 1965, they responded to an acrimonious split with a larger neighbour (Malaysia) by slashing taxes, creating enterprise zones and opening their economy to the world.

Such things are not easily done in a democracy. But attitudes change when people feel they are being bullied. And, make no mistake, if the EU refused to agree with Britain even the minimal courtesies that democracies take for granted with their neighbours, people would conclude that Britain was, in effect, being blockaded. In such a climate, voters would accept reforms that, in more tranquil times, they might see as too much bother.


What reforms? After unilateral free trade, the most important would be tax cuts to stimulate growth and attract investment. Corporation tax should be reduced to the OECD minimum of ten per cent, and other taxes that impair economic activity, such as fuel duty, scrapped.

Where would the money come from? Apart from the extra £39 billion that would be immediately freed up, we could drop HS2 and privatise more government assets, including land owned by the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall.

We should repeal anti-competitive EU regulations: the Temporary Workers Directive, the rules on art sales, the GM ban, the internet restrictions – including GDPR. We should ease planning restrictions. We should also (and this won’t be popular) ensure that the City retains its global re-eminence, abolishing the EU’s MiFID rules on transparency across financial markets, removing bonus caps, giving the FCA the explicit remit of increasing competitiveness. The Bank of England, similarly, should replace its inflation target with a growth target – an apparently minor reform that is critical if we need an emergency boost.

But here’s the thing. We should have already embarked on these changes in anticipation of a possible breakdown. Instead, we are spending more and regulating more. EU negotiators have concluded that Theresa May has no interest in economic liberalisation. That has been the problem from the start.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,263
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That was what turned Singapore from a poor, equatorial island into a gleaming metropolis. Singaporeans went from having half our income per head in the 1950s to nearly twice today. Why? Because in 1965, they responded to an acrimonious split with a larger neighbour (Malaysia) by slashing taxes, creating enterprise zones and opening their economy to the world.
My disagree is based on this, Singapore's appalling governance now in which people are always second to the profit motive.

It would never be accepted here in the West.
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