Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

The EU is in fact the way forward towards a better future than we can manage on our own.

Absolutely! The only countries that dislike the concept are those clinging to historic racist ideals and those still unable to shake off their empire-building and warmongering designs on absolute power. Frequently, both those elements are displayed by the same state.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Absolutely! The only countries that dislike the concept are those clinging to historic racist ideals and those still unable to shake off their empire-building and warmongering designs on absolute power. Frequently, both those elements are displayed by the same state.

Tom

perhaps not historic ideals but prudence. The price of staying out of the EU is slower economic growth but it's a small price for retaining choice and diversity.

 

[oldgroaner]

perhaps not historic ideals but prudence. The price of staying out of the EU is slower economic growth but it's a small price for retaining choice and diversity.

Only if you have no interest in the future and it only works as a temporary fudge if you have three things

1. Vast resources
2. People with vision who can run a country efficiently
3. An economy that doesn't have so much money tied up in Property at vastly inflated values

We obviously don't qualify on any of those counts

 

[Zlatan]

Absolutely! The only countries that dislike the concept are those clinging to historic racist ideals and those still unable to shake off their empire-building and warmongering designs on absolute power. Frequently, both those elements are displayed by the same state.

Tom

So where does that summation leave you with Corbyn? Confused I, d guess.
Or perhaps you think he is racist and anti semitic??

 

[oldtom]

sooner or later, Wales, Scotland and NI will decide for themselves if the conservatives are right to take them out of the EU.

I believe that outcome is inevitable and the least harm will be done if it's sooner rather than later. The realisation that Westminster, with it's archaic institutions and quaint customs and practices, does not serve the peoples of these islands equitably will ultimately lead to the dissolution of the Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - the sooner the better, in my view.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I believe that outcome is inevitable and the least harm will be done if it's sooner rather than later. The realisation that Westminster, with it's archaic institutions and quaint customs and practices, does not serve the peoples of these islands equitably will ultimately lead to the dissolution of the Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - the sooner the better, in my view.

Tom

if the UK is split as a consequence of brexit, then presumably because people of Wales, Scotland and NI see a better future inside the US of E. That may cause people in England to rethink brexit. No lasting harm to test out the theory.

 

[oldtom]

the price of staying out of the EU is slower economic growth but it's a small price for retaining choice and diversity.

Really! So, the French and the Germans, the Greeks, Portuguese and Italians, for example, are all hampered in that regard by being members of the EU? I didn't know that and I can't recall any of those complaining about it.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
Brexit: Theresa May backs new immigration system that allows some low-skilled workers into UK
A new system will create a specific route for low-skilled workers to come into the country for specific sectors

Another nail in the coffin of what the Brexit Voters thought that they had won

 

[Woosh]

Really! So, the French and the Germans, the Greeks, Portuguese and Italians, for example, are all hampered in that regard by being members of the EU? I didn't know that and I can't recall any of those complaining about it.

Tom

we are traditionally one of the most politically aware country in the world. I am pretty sure that brexit is watched anxiously by a lot of EU countries. If brexit delivers a reasonably good deal for the UK (eg Chequers) then you would see referenda in other EU countries.

 

[oldgroaner]

we are traditionally one of the most politically aware country in the world. I am pretty sure that brexit is watched anxiously by a lot of EU countries. If brexit delivers a reasonably good deal for the UK (eg Chequers) then you would see referenda in other EU countries.

Politically aware? that is a good one.
Continuously bombarded with lies and propaganda to bamboozle the public is nearer the truth, and even that failed to the extent that a handful of conmen managed to outmaneuver the Government and lie, cheat and con the public into voting for Brexit

 

[Zlatan]

Really! So, the French and the Germans, the Greeks, Portuguese and Italians, for example, are all hampered in that regard by being members of the EU? I didn't know that and I can't recall any of those complaining about it.

Tom

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/03/greek-riot-police-teargas-protest-eu-migration-policy-lesbos

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/878586/Thousands-anti-EU-protest-Rome-Nato-euro-Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/world/1993/may/20/eu.politics

You don't look very hard do you.

 

[oyster]

Thank you, David Mitchell:

Actually, Boris, this Churchill fetish isn’t your finest hour...

David Mitchell
If Johnson thinks he’s the reincarnation of the great wartime leader we should really begin to worry

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/30/actually-boris-johnson-this-winston-churchill-fetish-isnt-your-finest-hour#comment-120987932

 

[oyster]

OMG - never thought I'd feel sorry for NK's Kim:

Trump professes love for Kim and hate for Kavanaugh torment in freewheeling speech

President says he and North Korean dictator ‘fell in love’, decries nasty Democrats and believes UN speech drew respect

In a meandering hour-long speech in West Virginia, Donald Trump said he “fell in love” with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un, while escalating his rhetoric about the supreme court confirmation fight of Judge Brett Kavanaugh.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/30/trump-love-kim-nasty-democrat-kavanaugh-west-virginia

 

[Woosh]

Politically aware? that is a good one.
Continuously bombarded with lies and propaganda to bamboozle the public is nearer the truth, and even that failed to the extent that a handful of conmen managed to outmaneuver the Government and lie, cheat and con the public into voting for Brexit

that's been the case in this country as far back as I can remember, well before the brexit fight.

 

[Zlatan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-44054594

What is the big problem on Northern Irish border different to those mentioned in link ???

 

[oyster]

May refuses to deny that no-deal Brexit could lead to hard border in Ireland -

 

[Zlatan]

Just watched May being grilled by Marr. Can't imagine any other politicians doing aswell. Thought she came over very well. She tried to answer questions. Came over level headed, admitted mistakes, apologised when appropriate.
Just trying to see any of others being interviewed. BJ would play the fool, JRM would come over as JRM DOES. Corbyn wouldn't answer a thing and Abbott wouldn't understand question.
I suspect May is gaining popularity.???

 

[Zlatan]

May refuses to deny that no-deal Brexit could lead to hard border in Ireland -

Not quite what she just said on Marr.

 

[oldgroaner]

Just watched May being grilled by Marr. Can't imagine any other politicians doing aswell. Thought she came over very well. She tried to answer questions. Came over level headed, admitted mistakes, apologised when appropriate.
Just trying to see any of others being interviewed. BJ would play the fool, JRM would come over as JRM DOES. Corbyn wouldn't answer a thing and Abbott wouldn't understand question.
I suspect May is gaining popularity.???

So? That's good news, which will ensure the blame stays where it belongs, let me be the first to offer her congratulations.
She deserves everything that's coming in her direction.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-44054594

What is the big problem on Northern Irish border different to those mentioned in link ???

both sides don't want this:

goods need to go through real border gates and wait 20 minutes - 2 hours.