OG to some degree I agree with you, however I do think he offered a bribe which he couldn't honour. But I do feel the same that we don't want to be out in name but still controlled by Brussels. That would make it a total waste of time money and effort. You continue with the negative possibilities and cannot see any positives, but sometimes carrying on with the status quo is not the best option and we may well find that the EU has been holding us back. I'm sure you will pour scorn on that idea, but the truth is you have no idea what will happen, in the same way that you don't know where the EU is going. They do have many problems just below the surface and may not be as stable as you think. The decision to leave was based on a democratic vote, and if we want democracy to survive and for us to believe in our political system, it must be honoured. If the vote had gone the other way it would have been a very different conversation.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Free university tuition within the higher education system in its present form would be a disaster. At least 50% of courses and a large number of establishments need to be closed down, quickly. There are far to many people who should never be allowed to go anywhere near a university, except to clean or maintain it, being suckered into expensive courses which leave them equipped for nothing except disappointment.
University education should be free to all of those who are academically talented. Many in today’s university system are not. They are there only to fill the pockets of chancellors, chief executives with cash.
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Nationalising assets is entirely different to offering state aid to say Virgin trains, and the EU have no problem there.
So your post is simply wrong
That is all about helping shareholders.
Of course that's fine with the arch capitalist EU.
But try and save British Steel...Non monsieur. Non!
Perhaps you could point to somewhere in my post where I said we should not act democratically?
Democracy requires the chance to change your mind or it is simply a Dictatorship, however a no deal brexit on the basis that common sense will not prevail and this insane experiment of Brexi continues with do very nicely
Can't see any positives? then by all means show us even one.
Strange that the EU hasn't held Germany back has it? so why does it do that to us?
Brussels never controlled us, that is Urban Myth and , if you even begin to understand how the EU works I wouldn't have to tell you that.
We were party to all laws passed as a more than equal partner, and often bullied the other members to go in the way we wanted.
As to "Believe in our political system"
Sorry you've lost me there, are you asking me to believe you do, after this shambolic affair?
And I do have an idea of what will happen, after all I managed to forecast the win for the leave camp when few others did, and the forces at work should have been simple enough for anyone to follow.
The end of this affair, however long it takes will be our re application to join the EU
By then the EU will have morphed into the Federal Superstate it was always intended to be, and your Brexit vote has removed the one impediment that could have prevented that happening, the ultimate own goal.
Before then there will be decline, hardship and suffering and inevitable trouble.
Do you imagine for moment that anyone will be happy is they suffer for this folly?
Why would I have a link? My post was just an interpretation of Danidl's by only quoting the salient points, since you hadn't understood that.
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I agree. A gradual change over, starting by free teaching, medical and nursing degree courses for example.
And I still don't get it.
It makes no sense. He must have read it incorrectly.
Netflix works in regions. Not languages or political parties. Can you imagine how much of a ball ache that would be in Europe alone?
Its nonsensical. These sort of stories get slung about like harry at a bukkake party in the hope some of it sticks. You have to step back sometimes and call them out.
If there is a change it has nothing to do with Brexit.
Frankly it doesn't matter, he has no greater chance of making Brexit work than I have of being the next King.
Frankly I don't see him doing anything except perhaps a suicidal urge to take on power at exactly the wrong point in history, rather like Abraham Lincoln's description of an incompetent Civil war General
"There goes a man who can snatch defeat from the very jaws of Victory"
At the moment a woman holds that job
Long May May continue to carry the can.
Once again you display a tendency to judge the EU on the actions of individuals, and assume that the EU has a series of responsibilities way outside it's purview.
Wake up yourself
Congratulations! you got it wrong again!
The EU wanted to put higher tariffs on Chinese Steel but Cameron and co fought against that
And the Tory's never had any intention of putting money into a company they had sold off!
" British Steel Corporation (BSC), formed in 1967, which was privatised as a public limited company, British Steel plc, in 1988.
Had it been a Nationalised Company we could have financed it.
The fact that it was Capitalist owned meant that putting money into it amounted to aiding one competitor against another.
Another comic and utterly incorrect post.
please check facts before posting
Now I don't understand, the EU is a region and not a language or political party.
Netflix has apparently made a committment to the EU region.
Brexit could have an effect on the UK with such an agreement, since it would limit potential.
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you are so angry.
It became British Steel again in 2016.
In late 2015 a prelimary agreement was made with Greybull Capital for the sale of the long products division.[8] The sale was agreed to on 11 April 2016 for a nominal £1, with Greybull taking over the assets and liabilities of the division. At takeover the division employed approximately 5,000 workers, predominately in the UK.[9] The sale was completed at the end of May 2016, with the resulting business renamed British Steel.[10][note 1] As part of the takeover, new agreements were made with workers and unions, including a wage cut, end to bonus schemes, and the end of a final salary pension scheme. The British Steel Pension Scheme (BSPS) was not included in the sale. Greybull stated that at acquisition the business was profitable.[12]
In June 2017, it was reported that the previously loss-making plant at Scunthorpe was once again back in profit, a year after Greybull took the concern over from Tata Steel. The 2015-2016 financial year saw a loss of £79 million, whilst 2016-2017 produced a profit of £47 million before tax. In light of this, British Steel Limited announced that the 3% pay cut agreed to by the workers on takeover, would be reversed.[
Do keep up and don't let anger cloud your mind. You could learn stuff here.
Zlatan, I would like to have an intelligent discussion with you on these matters, but you make that impossible in two ways:
First is your irrational phobia about Corbyn that makes you introduce that into almost every post, however irrelevant.
Second is your refusal to see the reality of what actually happens instead of the theory of what perhaps should. Article 107 is about state aid, which does not preclude state ownership. In theory it could inhibit it, but as we know in practice, it doesn't inhibit either state ownership or state aid, both happen and on all the evidence will continue to.
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What point are you trying to make here? the Government hasn't put money into the company nor renationalised it has it?
What happened to it was nothing whatever to do with the EU, and it wasn't Capitalism on the part of the EU, but capitalists here swindling the worker of their pension rights and cutting their wages to get a cheap company.
And the reason they were able to make a profit? because Tata ran the company down in favour of their Indian plants in the hope of conning money out of the Government here or selling it off to reduce competition
As it happened they made a strategic mistake
I am fully aware of what happened with this company thank you, but you are obviously not.
The original name was British Steel Corporation (BSC),
Not British steel
You should try taking your own advice
"Do keep up and don't let anger cloud your mind. You could learn stuff here.
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I'm not saying the tories would have renationalised it. I never did.
But without the shackles of the EU a future socialist government could. With ease. Seriously groans. You only read what you want to read. You have angeracts in your eyes.
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Well please explain, as I, ve asked 3 times before, Corbyn's stance on EU. It was exactly the reason he offered as to his dislike of EU.
Its your refusal to accept implications of Art 107. It would be impossible to Nationalise any industry without
A) Giving some kind of state aid
Or B
B) Affecting similar industries in other parts of EU.
Yes, I agree EU may well endorse any re nationalisation efforts but again 2 points
A) They are not obliged to do so.
And
B)Any government would have to defer to EU for ratification. (And its been the case no matter what you say about Art 107,since 2012)
And as I, ve asked before, please explain Corbyn's stance on EU. Your stand point depends on knowing it yet you fail to even attempt to explain it.
Perhaps he has changed his mind and is now pro EU. If so please provide a link. If he is anti EU please explain his reasoning.
You continually accuse me of being anti Corbyn but fail to defend his view.
Labour's anti EU stance has contributed to our situation and maintained May in power yet you support Corbyn's stance. Odd at best.
Why a nursing degree? This is just sugar coating on a devious scheme to get nurses to pay for their own training. Occupations such as nursing, policing and many others do not require a degree. The training for these jobs should be funded by the government or the employer in the form of an apprenticeship, not the student / apprentice themselves.
The whole degree for everything culture is a complete scandal and young people, plus their parents, have literally been mugged by the government.
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The EU would not prevent Corbyn nationalising anything, why do you persist with denying that?
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