Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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As an MP, my true allegiance was to my party, my constituents and, above all, my conscience. Therefore, in order to serve in the Commons and the cabinet, I had to tell 18 lies under oath, which I found deeply offensive.
just a practice run.
don't tell me that politicians find lying difficult. They are economical with the truth practically all the time.
 

oldgroaner

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In the UK, we endure something euphemistically referred to by some as a monarchical democracy. Not many people in the UK have any true understanding of what that really means but this might help, thanks to the late Tony Benn:

Many will remember seeing either this photo or any one of a large number of similar ones:

View attachment 26214

What is important about this picture? Tony Benn explains it:

“The royal prerogative, exercised not by the Queen but by the prime minister in her name, is seen as the final guarantee that democratic decisions by parliament and the people could never be allowed to undermine the hierarchical and semi-feudal system we have.

The fount of honour has been re-routed from Buckingham Palace and now sprays the holy water of patronage on the chosen few from 10 Downing Street, which appoints archbishops, bishops, cabinet ministers, peers and judges, and fills most senior government posts with the people it wants.

Declarations of war and Britain's adherence to treaties such as the new European constitution are exercised under prerogative powers by the prime minister, who may or may not choose to consult the Commons or the electorate in a referendum.

Government policy is revealed in the Queen's speech, which she does not write herself; all laws to be enacted require the royal assent; parliaments are all summoned and dissolved by royal proclamation; and the Commons even requires the consent of the Queen before it can elect a speaker, because we have a monarchy.

MPs have to swear allegiance to the Queen before they can take their seats, while those joining the privy council - a requirement for all cabinet ministers - have to do so in person, on bended knee, before the Queen herself.

As an MP, my true allegiance was to my party, my constituents and, above all, my conscience. Therefore, in order to serve in the Commons and the cabinet, I had to tell 18 lies under oath, which I found deeply offensive.

Above all, the existence of a hereditary monarchy helps to prop up all the privilege and patronage that corrupts our society; that is why the crown is seen as being of such importance to those who run the country - or enjoy the privileges it affords.”

- Tony Benn

All in it together? I think not!

Tom
All of which rather makes a Joke of calling the EU political structure "unelected"
Clearly our version of Democracy is only for the Morlocks and the Eloi still rule from their lofty mountain top palaces, while we toil in the tunnels below.

Is this what taking back control means to the Brexit Voters?
To get this character to run the place?


Oh! wrong image...but my goodness the likeness is alarming...
 

oldgroaner

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Afraid not OG... Chemical Ali tried his hardest to remain..well after trying to unify (invade) region. Much more like EU than me.
As usual you have the wrong villain, this was "comical Ali" not "Chemical Ali"
The resemblance doesn't stop there Comical Ali spread the most nonsensical propaganda and refused to believe the obvious, pretending there were no tanks in Baghdad, even though you could hear them in the background.

This "Reality Denial" is straight out of the Brexit for Dummies Guide
 
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Woosh

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his "Reality Denial" is straight out of the Brexit for Dummies Guide
can you accept that people may vote with their feelings?
We have had a constant stream of fact checks ever since the referendum and many old voters have died, but not many have changed how they would vote if they have to a second time.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Have I missed it? The article in the attached link relates to a get-together of Neo-Nazis that occurred recently but only reported in the non-mainstream media.

In the week that has elapsed since Mike Sivier published his piece, I cannot recall reading about the matter in the major right-wing, extremist media but perhaps it featured as a sidebar note somewhere as if it had headlined, some people may have become more than a little worried:

https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2018/08/02/bbc-silent-as-top-tories-exposed-holding-secret-meetings-with-neo-nazi-leader-accused-of-antisemitism-evolve-politics/

Tom
 

oldgroaner

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can you accept that people may vote with their feelings?
We have had a constant stream of fact checks ever since the referendum and many voters have died, not many have changed how they would vote if they have to a second time.
I believe I just confirmed that they do, once someone or something has convinced them they are being abused in some way,invoking fear and jealousy, they naturally see everything that contradicts that notion as a threat and discount it.
Only a severe shock that they cannot rationalise is needed to rattle them to the point they discard their current attitude, and at that point trouble ensues through bitterness.
That is the real danger after Brexit , none of us can afford the risk of it going wrong.
The only sane thing to do is avoid Leaving the EU.
The risks of that action are far less and not so dangerous.
 

Woosh

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once someone or something has convinced them they are being abused in some way
it's not abuse. It is the loss of identity.
that matters to some, especially if they already have one foot in the grave.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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As usual you have the wrong villain, this was "comical Ali" not "Chemical Ali"
The resemblance doesn't stop there Comical Ali spread the most nonsensical propaganda and refused to believe the obvious, pretending there were no tanks in Baghdad, even though you could hear them in the background.

This "Reality Denial" is straight out of the Brexit for Dummies Guide
Screenshot_20180809-100503.jpg

Must be Google that's wrong too.
 

tillson

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May 29, 2008
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YouGov poll shows voting intention has flipped toward remain in the South West:

At the 2016 referendum around 53 per cent of voters in the southwest cast their ballot for Leave while 47 opted Remain, now 53 becomes 49 and 47 becomes 51.
Maybe that's the result of demography (the South West has a high percentage of 65+ year olds who have died since the referendum) rather than shifting opinion.
Whilst I agree, I think the mood of the country as a whole is tending to shift towards remain, I don’t think it’s due to older leave voters dying. I think it’s mainly due to even more people losing faith and confidence in the UK government. I think people are starting to perceive the EU as slightly less of a clusterfuck than the inbred retards which form our parliament.

Ps. Beware of polls. They’re shite.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
it's not abuse. It is the loss of identity.
that matters to some, especially if they already have one foot in the grave.
You are being very kind, calling it 'loss of identity'. In reality, it is the inherited racism down through the generations allied to the notion that we still rule the world (or should do).

A large number of those who voted leave are those with memories that hark back to an England as depicted in 'The Darling Buds Of May' - somehow, their memory blots out the hardships of life in the UK for ordinary folk before the days of the NHS and the post war, full-employment boom before it all turned to hist.

The general lack of knowledge about the EU hasn't helped either but those people you refer to are extremely sure of their identity!

Tom
 
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Woosh

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Beware of polls. They’re shite.
that poll was commissioned by the 'People's Vote' campaign, so the usual caveat applies but YouGov has pretty good reputation. One out of 50 leave voters flipped side, that's roughly half the death rate among pensioners in the last 2 years.
 
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Woosh

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TM may be winning:

Sources in the Brexit negotiations are confident that European leaders would listen if Mrs May adopted the ‘Jersey model’ in full but Britain would then have to adopt all future EU environmental and and social protections, according to the Times.
 

Wicky

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Iraqi General Ali Hassan al-Majid, a cousin of President Saddam Hussein, was widely known in Iraq as "Chemical Ali" for his repeated use of outlawed chemical warfare.



Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf 'Baghdad Bob' was the Iraqi (dis)Information Minister.

"We have them surrounded in their tanks."

Britain "is not worth an old shoe." (maybe not far wrong there...)
 

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