Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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There are none so blind as those who will not see! The Jews of Israel have turned into the Nazis of the 1930s and '40s and are now committing atrocities against an oppressed people. What part of that have you failed to notice?

Tom
ask yourself this simple question: how many Palestinian descendants carry Israeli passport? Are they persecuted? How many arab countries' citizens visit Israel every year? are they stopped and searched?
Likening Israel to Nazi's Germany is uncalled for.
 

flecc

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Thinks that's called biased. Geography would play no part if music were judged on merit. Europe is just a tad jealous over British Isles almost monopoly on decent music. OK, Sweden gave us ABBA... thanks.
I don't think that's true, it's a very Anglo-centric view. Different peoples have very different tastes in music and the spread of the EU into Eastern Europe has made that more influential as Danidl has observed. Hungarian tastes for example are very different from ours, especially with what is regarded as popular music. Similar can be said about the other countries of Eastern Europe and the Balkans.

Gone are the dependable days of the votes of the closest nations and Scandinavia being sufficient.

Of course that can be corrected by forging ahead with the European project to unite Europe as one country, thus developing a single European culture. But I believe you are not too keen on that! :D
.
 
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oldgroaner

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Clearly, you are in denial 'Woosh' and quite frankly, I think you should be ashamed of the comments you have made.

Tom
Well done oldtom, that gets the "Attilla the Hun" award for Diplomacy.
I can hear Zlatan's afterburner kicking in.............
It's going "WoosH!":eek:
 
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Danidl

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Thinks that's called biased. Geography would play no part if music were judged on merit. Europe is just a tad jealous over British Isles almost monopoly on decent music. OK, Sweden gave us ABBA... thanks. Oh, and a Belgium bloke invented Saxophone. Mr Sax I think. Now, porn, that's a different matter. Holland, Belgium, Germany are way ahead.(So I, ve been told)
.. the Germans might disagree with names like. Beethoven, Hydn, that Wagner person on the team, the Italians might like to think Verdi had a little merit, the Austrians have suggested the Mozart bloke as being passable the Poles think that Chopin might do, Sibelius, cracked off a few tunes in Finland, and those Russians were not half bad , the Irish invented the Nocturne, and can you ever forgive Ravel and his french bolearo. ..
The depth of classical music in central Europe still astonishes me, and it will inform more modern forms.
Actually UK and Ireland have won it on 12 occasions out of a potential 61 , Ireland's 7 pips UKs 5.. but neither have been very successful in recent years...
I am not trying to skew the conversion , just to amplify the realisation that the UK and even moreso, Ireland are seen as on the periphery
 
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tommie

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There are none so blind as those who will not see! The Jews of Israel have turned into the Nazis of the 1930s and '40s and are now committing atrocities against an oppressed people. What part of that have you failed to notice?

Tom
Nothing like a bit of Racism is there Tom? .. no surprise there.

anti-Semitic
ˌantɪsɪˈmɪtɪk/
adjective
adjective: anti-Semitic; adjective: antisemitic

hostile to or prejudiced against Jews.
 
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Woosh

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Clearly, you are in denial 'Woosh' and quite frankly, I think you should be ashamed of the comments you have made.

Tom
why should I be ashamed of that comment?
If our RAF drops bombs in Syria for example, would I liken our country to Nazi's Germany? Of course not.
 
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flecc

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.. the Germans might disagree with names like. Beethoven, Hydn, that Wagner person on the team, the Italians might like to think Verdi had a little merit, the Austrians have suggested the Mozart bloke as being passable the Poles think that Chopin might do, Sibelius, cracked off a few tunes in Finland, and those Russians were not half bad , the Irish invented the Nocturne, and can you ever forgive Ravel and his french bolearo. ..
The depth of classical music in central Europe still astonishes me, and it will inform more modern forms.
Actually UK and Ireland have won it on 12 occasions out of a potential 61 , Ireland's 7 pips UKs 5.. but neither have been very successful in recent years...
I am not trying to skew the conversion , just to amplify the realisation that the UK and even moreso, Ireland are seen as on the periphery
Nice to see John Field get an oblique mention. He's sadly too neglected these days, though still revered in Russia.
.
 
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Zlatan

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You, ll be saying German's have a good sense of humour next.
Next time you turn radio on in any part of world, especially Europe chances are it will be a UK band /artist playing. I was talking about music that's actually listened to and not just quoted about to make speaker sound intelligent.
Kids speak English throughout the world because they grow up listening to UK/Irish and American music.
Yes, Italians seem quite good with opera music... When was that last played on radio 2...
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/07/the-worlds-biggest-bands-are-british-and-its-biggest-solo-artists-are-american/277472/

Look at worlds top 20 Bands... Can't see Mozart mentioned, not many German's or French.. (OK Celine Dion)
Didnt Hitler quite like Wagner, he was crap on BGT though.
 
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Danidl

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You, ll be saying German's have a good sense of humour next.
Next time you turn radio on in any part of world, especially Europe chances are it will be a UK band /artist playing. I was talking about music that's actually listened to and not just quoted about to make speaker sound intelligent.
Kids speak English throughout the world because they grow up listening to UK/Irish and American music.
Yes, Italians seem quite good with opera music... When was that last played on radio 2...
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/07/the-worlds-biggest-bands-are-british-and-its-biggest-solo-artists-are-american/277472/

Look at worlds top 20 Bands... Can't see Mozart mentioned, not many German's or French.. (OK Celine Dion)
Didnt Hitler quite like Wagner, he was crap on BGT though.
Celine is actually Canadian... . Not my cup of tea but Andre Rieu from Holland has a global following. The major opera singers are global superstars . The blue tinted brigade have a lot more money than cash strapped youngsters,and the singers musicians catering to them make a pile!!!.
Opera and classical music can make more money for the record companies over the long term...
But this is getting way off track, .. my point is was that both UK and Ireland are seen as outliers from the mainstream.
 
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oldgroaner

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why should I be ashamed of that comment?
If our RAF drops bombs in Syria for example, would I liken our country to Nazi's Germany? Of course not.
It seems wars of aggression are OK, so when we are the ones waging them?#

indeed we are NOT like Nazi Germany, simply behaving according to the old saying
"Britannia Waives the Rules", a long established practice on our part alas.
 
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Woosh

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"Britannia Waives the Rules", a long established practice on our part alas.
it's only a phase in human evolution where conflicts are still resolved by the use of force. If you take out organised religions, you'd stop half of the atrocities. Genocides are largely eliminated. Land disputes will take a little longer to resolve without wars.
 
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Woosh

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would you support more military spending on advanced fighter jets and nuclear submarines?

War deaths are now fewer than people drowning in the Med while trying to seek a better life.


 

oldgroaner

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it's only a phase in human evolution where conflicts are still resolved by the use of force. If you take out organised religions, you'd stop half of the atrocities. Genocides are largely eliminated. Land disputes will take a little longer to resolve without wars.
There is one religion that will outlast all the others and that is the one our Foreign Policy is dictated by
GREED
 

Woosh

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this will hurt (the hard brexiiters):

the Sun headlines today:

"A no-deal Brexit will hit European countries the hardest – costing them a WHOPPING £500BN"

perhaps a little reflection on how much a no deal brexit will cost the UK won't go amiss.
 

oldgroaner

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would you support more military spending on advanced fighter jets and nuclear submarines?

War deaths are now fewer than people drowning in the Med while trying to seek a better life.


Of course not, the Government will need Water Cannon in future.
 
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Woosh

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There is one religion that will outlast all the others and that is the one our Foreign Policy is dictated by
GREED
Greed is usually a force for good.

if you compare the power of a few ultra rich individuals against the power of a few top religious leaders and politicians, I would argue that although all of them are limited by human lifespan, politicians and religious cause a lot more atrocities than those who control the great fortunes.
 
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oldgroaner

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this will hurt (the hard brexiiters):

the Sun headlines today:

"A no-deal Brexit will hit European countries the hardest – costing them a WHOPPING £500BN"

perhaps a little reflection on how much a no deal brexit will cost the UK won't go amiss.
At first it looks quite startling, but then you come across this

"A study by economics professor Patrick Minford says a “no deal” Brexit would mean the EU forking out £433billion in tariffs.

Thank Goodness! for a moment I didn't realise it was a Joke!
 
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