Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Oh ye of little Faith!
That was never their objective was it?
After all why should the fate of how many are we now? coming on for 70 millions?, matter against the value to them of the dazzling prize of Holy Brexit?
The freedom to turn this country into a latter day version of the Pirate Capital Port Royal.
The snag with their plan is that they couldn't organise a Fire drill without ending up in the bar.
Brexit is like one of Leonardo Da Vinci's flying machines, looks great but it could take hundreds of years before someone manages to make the idea work.
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From the Express
"
Phew! May SCRAPES Brexit victory by THREE VOTES as No10 plot to avoid LEADERSHIP COUP
THERESA May was tonight forced to toughen her Brexit negotiation offer to Brussels following the threat of a revolt by Eurosceptic Tory MPs. In a surprise climb down to avoid an embarrassing Commons vote, the Prime Minister accepted four amendments tabled by Tory backbenchers to her Customs Bill."
How long will this one last? this gets worse every day
"
Phew! May SCRAPES Brexit victory by THREE VOTES as No10 plot to avoid LEADERSHIP COUP
THERESA May was tonight forced to toughen her Brexit negotiation offer to Brussels following the threat of a revolt by Eurosceptic Tory MPs. In a surprise climb down to avoid an embarrassing Commons vote, the Prime Minister accepted four amendments tabled by Tory backbenchers to her Customs Bill."
How long will this one last? this gets worse every day
From the Guardian
"
Vote Leave fined and reported to police by Electoral Commission
Watchdog finds ‘significant evidence’ of coordination with another pro-Brexit campaign group
Vote Leave has been fined and reported to the police by the Electoral Commission, after the watchdog found “significant evidence” of coordination with another campaign group, BeLeave.
The commission’s long-awaited report said it had found evidence BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with data firm Aggregate IQ coordinated with Vote Leave, which should have been declared by the Brexit campaign group.
Vote Leave, which was the official designated campaign for Britain leaving the EU during the referendum, exceeded its legal spending limit of £7m by almost £500,000, the watchdog found.
Darren Grimes, the founder of BeLeave, and the Vote Leave official David Halsall have been reported to the police. Vote Leave has been fined a total of £61,000 and Grimes £20,000.
"
Vote Leave fined and reported to police by Electoral Commission
Watchdog finds ‘significant evidence’ of coordination with another pro-Brexit campaign group
Vote Leave has been fined and reported to the police by the Electoral Commission, after the watchdog found “significant evidence” of coordination with another campaign group, BeLeave.
The commission’s long-awaited report said it had found evidence BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with data firm Aggregate IQ coordinated with Vote Leave, which should have been declared by the Brexit campaign group.
Vote Leave, which was the official designated campaign for Britain leaving the EU during the referendum, exceeded its legal spending limit of £7m by almost £500,000, the watchdog found.
Darren Grimes, the founder of BeLeave, and the Vote Leave official David Halsall have been reported to the police. Vote Leave has been fined a total of £61,000 and Grimes £20,000.
If this goes on, there must come a time at which a General Election is called (before fixed term is up, I mean). Just what the hell will that turn out like?
Vote tory in one constituency is remain; in another leave immediately, not passing Go.
(Obvious answer to that is not to vote tory...
)And what other options do we all have? Have to check local Plaid Cymru candidate's view on brexit.
How can the result be allowed to stand?
If this were a single constituency, wouldn't there be a fresh election?
Humour in the Guardian
"
'No collusion': Trump and Putin deny election meddling in TV interviews
Trump uses Fox News appearance to praise Putin as ‘very strong’, while Putin denies having compromising material on president
"“There's one way to find out if a man is honest - ask him. If he says "yes" you know he is a crook.”
― Groucho Marx
"
'No collusion': Trump and Putin deny election meddling in TV interviews
Trump uses Fox News appearance to praise Putin as ‘very strong’, while Putin denies having compromising material on president
"“There's one way to find out if a man is honest - ask him. If he says "yes" you know he is a crook.”
― Groucho Marx
The usual method is to make an offer to buy their seat(s)If this goes on, there must come a time at which a General Election is called (before fixed term is up, I mean). Just what the hell will that turn out like?
Vote tory in one constituency is remain; in another leave immediately, not passing Go.
(Obvious answer to that is not to vote tory...
And what other options do we all have? Have to check local Plaid Cymru candidate's view on brexit.
TM was wise to avoid immediate defeat.
If we have a hard brexit, soft brexit, customs union or no brexit, those ERG amendments are useless.
like this rubbish?
"I wouldn't be so sure. The public just want us to get on with Brexit. They are angry over Europe's bullying, and bored rigid by a political class that's not just incompetent, but utterly self-centred"
The EU haven't bullied anyone, they stated a position we were aware of all the time how is that bullying?
And this business of trading under WTO rules is a total non starter as out of the EU we will have to apply to join and that could take years.
Whatever the public wants isn't relevant so much as what the public is going to actually get is.
This is a disaster unfolding before our eyes, and fanciful ideas won't help avert it.
By the way Austin Mitchell is an outstanding example of a member of the very political class he complains about.
Just who is going to deliver a good result for the public on Brexit? do tell, who are these paragons that will launch a new and dynamic GB Mark 2 GTI?
Revitalise industry, sell to the world...
Let's have some names and see the big plan !
You can't can you? as the answer is Nobody and No plan..
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as it is, Michel Barnier is going to say 'Non'.
But as the basis for a soft brexit, it will draw fire from both wings of the conservative party. That's what TM wants. They'll keep themselves busy and hopefully, they'll forget that she is still PM.
From her point of view that's a good plan, from our's a waste of space and time!
there isn't anything else TM can do.
Like her brexit, she is PM in name only.
Reading the various reader comments in the right wing press, the true level of ignorance as to the consequences of Brexit prove just how powerful the leave propaganda is, and how little of it is being questioned by the public who support it.
The main areas of misunderstanding are
The main areas of misunderstanding are
- A hard Brexit will convey any sort of advantage to the UK
- The assumption that WTO rules will automatically apply and cause no problems
- That the country has the means and will to be a World class competitor
- The Government will somehow make everything alright.
these issues are mostly short term and can be rectified in a few years.
The fundamental issue is as illustrated in an article in the Indy by by Labour Shadow Industrial Strategy Chi Onwurah - the City drains resources and people from industry.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/brexit-eu-theresa-may-economy-industrial-strategy-finance-labour-a8449041.html
"Financialisation is not just a problem because it drains resources away from industry. In a financialised economy, investors with short-term horizons tend to have more control over firms. This results in less reinvestment of profits and rising burdens of debt that, in a vicious cycle, makes industry even more driven by short-term considerations. In effect, this kind of finance is not neutral but changes the nature of what it finances.
This was seen just recently with the GKN takeover by “turnaround company” Melrose. An estimated 20 to 25 per cent of the shares in GKN were in the hands of hedge funds, many of which were expected to back the takeover – with the firm Elliott Advisors, owning 3.8 per cent of the company, explicitly doing so. The bid was won by 52 per cent to 48 per cent. And Melrose itself is not run in any long-term interest other than maximising shareholder value: it has a long history of operating as a “turnaround firm” and almost a third of its own shares are held by hedge funds. The vote was essentially a referendum about the time horizons of British industry, and Britain lost."
And will continue to do so.
Even worse no one seems capable of setting up large scale manufacturing plants, without which we are doomed.
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