Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Not sure that Mr and Mrs Mansfield would be any happier being called uneducated than stupid,perhaps you are right they were poorly educated and very slow learners.
Trump may rue the day when he referred to Kim Jong Un as ‘little rocket man’,it never pays to try to belittle the opposition,it doesn’t start negotiations from a good base.....Boris hasn’t leant that either,I don’t hear any whistling from the EU,hehe !!!
KudosDave
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The USA constitution requires any president to have been born in the USA. So, without a change to that (or simply ignoring it), Putin could not become POTUS. (DT, as we will remember, always lied about Obama in that regard.)
No idea what the Russian constitution says but I'd rather expect them to require the ability to speak Russian. And DT is spectacularly bad at even US-English.
But, the more important point I was going to make... Whatever IQ or other assessment of intelligence is used, it is perfectly possible for that to change dramatically over time. I have to take levothyroxine (thyroid hormone) every day. If I didn't, one of the first things to deteriorate would be my ability to think. So-called thyroid brain fog. It can come in and takeover, then be relieved, within hours. There are many other things that affect the brain - most of them far less reversible.
zlatan,
wiki idiot = someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.
that's what he has done with imposing 25% extra import duty on steel and 10% on aluminium.
He knows now it's significantly counterproductive - did he think it well before tweeting? Apparently not. Now he tries to backtrack from it, first, excluding Canada and Mexico, then the USA's allies - the White House staff is still working on determining which countries are the allies after DT upsetting every country in the world.
What do you call such a president?
wiki idiot = someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.
that's what he has done with imposing 25% extra import duty on steel and 10% on aluminium.
He knows now it's significantly counterproductive - did he think it well before tweeting? Apparently not. Now he tries to backtrack from it, first, excluding Canada and Mexico, then the USA's allies - the White House staff is still working on determining which countries are the allies after DT upsetting every country in the world.
What do you call such a president?
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Coming back to immigration,net migration figures are still over 100,000 so why are the hotels,farms,hospitals,care homes and restaurants so short of stafff?
KudosDave
KudosDave
I suspect obesity may be the root cause of us losing so many workers. Their jobs will have to be filled by immigrants.
B
Wiki defines idiot as a dullard and a person lacking in intelligence.
The word is derived from Greek.
"Idiot is a word derived from the Greek ἰδιώτης, idiōtēs ("person lacking professional skill", "a private citizen", "individual"), from ἴδιος, idios ("private", "one's own").[1] In ancient Greece, people who were not capable of engaging in the public sphere were considered "idiotes", in contrast to the public citizen, or "polites"[2]. In Latin the word idiota ("ordinary person, layman") preceded the Late Latin meaning "uneducated or ignorant person".
Perhaps some folk should buy new dictionaries or be less selective about bits they post from them.
Looking at the derivation of word DT is as far removed from an idiot as its possible to get...
But then again our resident dullard knows all about idiots...dont you Tom.
Just had a guilt trip over arguing with Tom, my apologies Tom. Its not fair my entering a battle of wits with you, its so obvious you are unarmed.
Woosh
Wiki defines idiot as a dullard and a person lacking in intelligence.
The word is derived from Greek.
"Idiot is a word derived from the Greek ἰδιώτης, idiōtēs ("person lacking professional skill", "a private citizen", "individual"), from ἴδιος, idios ("private", "one's own").[1] In ancient Greece, people who were not capable of engaging in the public sphere were considered "idiotes", in contrast to the public citizen, or "polites"[2]. In Latin the word idiota ("ordinary person, layman") preceded the Late Latin meaning "uneducated or ignorant person".
Perhaps some folk should buy new dictionaries or be less selective about bits they post from them.
Looking at the derivation of word DT is as far removed from an idiot as its possible to get...
But then again our resident dullard knows all about idiots...dont you Tom.
Just had a guilt trip over arguing with Tom, my apologies Tom. Its not fair my entering a battle of wits with you, its so obvious you are unarmed.
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Poorly educated, not uneducated. The majority of Secondary schools in that area pre 1990 were nothing more than establishments to prepare the boys for the pit and the girls for the factories.
At the end of the chat Mr and Mrs Mansfield still seemed keen on Brexit but didn’t seem to know why. Difficult to know how Brexit is going to improve the lives of such people.
KudosDave
KudosDave
.. careful now, you could end up with Tommie and me on the same side as allies .. And then your goose would-be rightly cooked.... Our crazy actions are just a screen for our conniving ways.
The older generations in certain parts of Mansfield and the surrounding villages expected to leave school at 15 or 16, find employment at a local colliery and work there until they retired. Entire communities were built around the collieries, colleagues living next door to, or on the same street as each other. When they finished work, they probably socialised together in the clubs and welfares.
As you probably know, during the miner’s strike many men in the Nottinghamshire coal fields continued working in the false hope that their pits would be spared. Having relied upon mining for their livelihood and being “conditioned “ for nothing else, the prospect of pit closures being too horrendous to even contemplate. The Nottinghamshire miners who continued working probably allowed Margaret Thatcher’s government to crush the strike. Those who went on strike, wanting nothing more than a job to support their families, had their heads kicked in by the police.
Of course, the strike failed, pits closed, the miners who continued working were shat upon from a great height by the government and deep resentment, which is still raw today, set in. In these areas today, drugs are everywhere, crime is high, there is no sense of community, the once affluent residents are now poor & using food banks, the streets are a mess and houses are boarded up and vandalised.
So, to use your term, stupid Mr & Mrs Mansfield find it difficult to imagine how things could get worse and if they did get worse, so what? Life is awful anyway. With good reason, they deeply mistrust government, particularly the Torys, so pre-referendum, when the official Tory government line was to vote remain, what are they likely to do?
Now they have to contend with people such as you, pretending that you care about their futures because it makes you feel better, but branding them as being stupid at the same time because that makes you feel superior. They also have journalists trying to publicly humiliate them in order to make a point which suits their political agenda.
They will never change their minds in a million years. These people are grafters, used to earning money the hard way. Making money buying a container load of shite from China for fifty quid and hawking it on for double that is an alien concept to them. When the hawkers then tell them that they are stupid because Brexit will make life harder for their business, they probably think, good.
With good reason, they believe that their lives are shite and probably can’t get much worse. This has all happened whilst being members of the EU. So from their point of view, Brexit is worth giving a chance, even if it is a gamble. They believe they have very little to lose, if anything at all.
There is much I agree with in all the points you raise bar one my friend.
They are mistaken in the belief they have very little to lose.
They have in fact every chance of losing what they have, which is infinitely more than they had at the end of the Second World war.
No matter how bad it gets, it is relatively easy to make matters worse.
They have, all it took was a little cross
They will find it turns out to be a Double Cross!
Who in their right mind can see them benefiting form the machinations of Rees Mogg and the other squalid bunch of Westminster Politicians?
And don't imagine that the Corbyn faction can accomplish miracles, however well intentioned.
By any measure this "Brexit" is a self harming act that will set the nation back for at least a generation.
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slow down or even stopping is what many people voted for.
So far, the pace of change has slowed down because our government does not have much time and energy left for more 'reforms'.
BTW, the first pay back was the departure of IDS from the Work and Pension dept.
Maybe the conclusion is incorrect, perhaps things could get worse. The point that I am making is that these people are looking at it from a different perspective to us, they just see a miserable future they way things are at present.
The job of remain, if they are serious about selling their case, is to convince them they are wrong and that things can get worse for them. Remain need to explain why in terms that are meaningful and it needs to come from someone who they trust. Portraying them as fools, stupid, Brexidiots and all of the other things is only going to strengthen their resolve.
Tilson, that was an outstanding balanced post , showing why and how the people in ravaged communities voted ...it was a protest vote and a vote of dispair.
The only error in their thought processes is a belief or hope that things could not get worse .. they can and do and in the case of Brexit are virtually guaranteed to get worse. .
The only error in their thought processes is a belief or hope that things could not get worse .. they can and do and in the case of Brexit are virtually guaranteed to get worse. .
that could have been a substantial factor influenced by progress in technology.
I wasn't concerned, the post content was a nice balance of plus/minus. Anyway I've got allies, my best friend of many years standing and his extended family are London Irish, lots of them holidaying in the RoI annually.
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