Brexit, for once some facts.

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
I suppose it makes a change from pointing at Russia meddling in our affairs. :)

Just why are we supposed to entirely trust someone who admits (claims?) to have acted as an enemy of the country? Suddenly they are elevated to a position of authority.

And just remember which stratum of society was involved most heavily in...

The Cambridge Spy Ring was a ring of spies in the United Kingdom, who passed information to the Soviet Union during World War II and was active at least into the early 1950s. Four members of the ring were originally identified: Kim Philby (cryptonym: Stanley), Donald Duart Maclean (cryptonym: Homer), Guy Burgess (cryptonym: Hicks) and Anthony Blunt (cryptonyms: Tony, Johnson). Once jointly known as the Cambridge Four and later as the Cambridge Five, the number increased as more evidence came to light.


Wasn't the good old working class labour-voting stratum.
Oyster, I don't know if you are old enough to remember that period or whether, perhaps, you have studied the history of that age but you are right to draw attention to the matter of British spies and espionage in general.

I have said previously that one cannot escape politics in the UK - it interferes one way or another in every aspect of our daily life and is far more important than simple economics, for example.

Many members of this forum are probably too young to remember the 'outing' of the Cambridge spy ring although they may have heard the names of some of the conspirators. Without researching the many books about that period of British history from pre-WW2 through the post-war period encompassing the cold war, the 'Wikipedia' information on Blunt alone is well worth reading.

Some may have read the Peter Wright novel, 'Spycatcher' which made him an extremely rich man in his twilight years thanks to a deal struck with an Australian publisher. Whether Wright's book satisfied detailed scrutiny, however, is anyone's guess but in the world of secrets, I'd doubt that we, the British public, ever got to hear all of the story in regard to the Cambridge spy ring.

The circles in which people exist in society is a fascinating study and when circles are connected, the inter-connections produce some incredibly interesting relationships. You can be sure that the leading members of the tory party are very closely connected, in some cases related, to the royal family, many of whom were and probably still are, fascists. Another thing you can be sure of is that the ordinary man in the street wasn't part of any major spy ring although certain news media magnates took the part of foreign powers in the 1930s and even today, the media, all of whose owners belong to the same circle as other powerful people in the UK, carry regular stories making wild accusations about reds under the beds within the Labour Party. That message is absorbed by millions, believing that posh tories and the great British monarchy are our protectors while Marxists, socialists and the Labour movement are all undermining British society on behalf of foreign powers - nothing could be further from the truth!

The immense power of the British media has contributed hugely to the tory party's success in elections throughout most of the 20th century. It works because it is a powerful brainwashing tool.

Tom
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Oyster, I don't know if you are old enough to remember that period or whether, perhaps, you have studied the history of that age but you are right to draw attention to the matter of British spies and espionage in general.
My background includes having lived in Berlin, as a young child, with a father in the RAF, neighbours in Brixmis, visits to the Air Safety Centre, Gatow, etc.

Although too young to understand, there was always some enhanced level of awareness and discussions with my mother. I came back to the UK about a year before the story broke.

I claim no knowledge or useful experience - but it is something not to be ignored.

(I guess, just because of my family connections, there is probably a Stasi file on me. :) )
 
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oldgroaner

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My background includes having lived in Berlin, as a young child, with a father in the RAF, neighbours in Brixmis, visits to the Air Safety Centre, Gatow, etc.

Although too young to understand, there was always some enhanced level of awareness and discussions with my mother. I came back to the UK about a year before the story broke.

I claim no knowledge or useful experience - but it is something not to be ignored.

(I guess, just because of my family connections, there is probably a Stasi file on me. :) )
And by coming on this forum the Boys and Girls at Menwith Hill will have your name and number too!
ps: Felicitations to you all up there. how's the weather lately? :cool:
 
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Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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It is being reported that Labour are about to become the party of remain putting clear daylight between Labour and the Tories.
It appears that only 9% of Labour voters would now vote Leave and these votes are not in critical seats to win the next election.
After Boris and TM terrible recent speeches May must be on a lot of pressure to ignore the 35 Tory bastards and start to do another U-turn,she has history at those. Continuing with a hard Brexit is a death sentence for the Tories.
Labour will introduce a number of amendments over the next few weeks in the withdrawal bill and the Lords will smell blood,TM May have so many bill obstacles that she will find it difficult to proceed.
Just don’t know what her options are???
KudosDave
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Although too young to understand, there was always some enhanced level of awareness and discussions with my mother. I came back to the UK about a year before the story broke.

I claim no knowledge or useful experience - but it is something not to be ignored.
None of us is in a position to reveal the inner secrets of our security services and, like many others, I signed the Official Secrets Act many years ago. Fortunately, I am not privy to any worthwhile information today, having retired from service many, many years ago.

As regards how matters such as espionage, the sharing of security information and the like might be impacted by 'Brexit', we should be guided by those who are privy to or have previous experience in international matters of crime fighting and diplomacy.

This chap know more than most and he is on record as stating:

27747985_1969718039735177_2756247943076065473_o.jpg

Of course, maybe he was promoted far beyond his actual talents on account of who he is and his family standing in society; I don't know but it is not unreasonable to describe him as an expert in his field and he seems to be saying things that might cause some in the government to view him as a bit of a bloody nuisance to the PM and the nastiest section of the tory party.

Tom
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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he seems to be saying things that might cause some in the government to view him as a bit of a bloody nuisance to the PM and the nastiest section of the tory party.
TM and co. aren't worried Tom, the CIA have Europe saturated with spies as ever and they share their intelligence with us.

And very good it is too, we'd never have known Sadam's Iraq had WMDs without them telling us. :rolleyes:
.
 
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anotherkiwi

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Jan 26, 2015
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TM and co. aren't worrried Tom, the CIA have Europe saturated with spies as ever and they share their intelligence with us.

And very good it is too, we'd never have known Sadam's Iraq had WMDs without them telling us. :rolleyes:
.
And those stupid French spies saying there was no such thing, luckily you believed the right people... :cool:
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
TM and co. aren't worrried Tom, the CIA have Europe saturated with spies as ever and they share their intelligence with us.

And very good it is too, we'd never have known Sadam's Iraq had WMDs without them telling us. :rolleyes:
.
You can't really put a price on peace of mind and I'm so glad you shared that with us 'flecc'!;)

Tom
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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The Daily Mail are still trying to make something of the Czech spy story
"
Labour MPs 'were paid £10,000 to meet spies’: Ex-Czech informant claims at least 15 senior figures were used in the Russian-orchestrated operation as Westminster is urged to launch a probe into the allegations
  • Czech ex-spy Jan Sarkocy claimed 15 senior Labour figures shared information
  • The former agent said the classified intelligence was given to him in the late 80s
  • Labour figures pocketed between £1,000 and £10,000 a meeting, Sarkocy said
  • Last night, there were calls for an official investigation into the fresh allegations

The questions that should be asked are
  1. Why is this agent's word believed? his boss says it is all untrue.
  2. What were our Security Forces going if any of this is true?
  3. Now the man asserts he got the information second hand.
  4. Why are the papers allowed to make serious allegations of the basis of hearsay?
I think there should indeed be an official investigation.
Into this and other papers truthfulness and political agendas. They are supposed to be Newspapers, but seem to have become something else entirely.
 

oyster

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They are supposed to be Newspapers, but seem to have become something else entirely.
Go back before WW2...


Let's get the undisputed facts out of the way first. At the beginning of the 1930s, the then Viscount Rothermere (Harold Harmsworth) owned the Mail and the Mirror.

In January 1934, he wrote - under his own byline - articles that appeared in both the Mail and the Mirror. The former was headlined "Hurrah for the Blackshirts". The latter was headlined "Give the Blackshirts a helping hand."

Within a year, he had removed his support for Mosley's party, though he remained an admirer of both Hitler and Mussolini. Indeed, he met and corresponded with Hitler, even congratulating him on his annexation of Czechoslovakia.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
This is the creature representing the interests of the rich and powerful.......for the moment:

Theresa May tuition fees.png

The full story is here: how-thick-does-theresa-may-imagine.html

Owen Jones, a journalist of sorts and major critic of tory policy, has this to say about 'toryism' as he calls it:

27972863_1713461398674989_3353317054355248345_n.png

And........you know all those things that have been said and written about Jeremy Corbyn, well they're all true; it's just the name of the culprit that's wrong. See here:

27973908_1713366372017825_6268088587501453884_n.png

If you need to know the true story of Jeremy Corbyn, this fella reveals all you need to know:

28059122_1713497812004681_7163596947115034884_n.png

Tom
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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I don't doubt your facts , but what is or was the context..
Was he a serving minister at the time?
Where there legally mandated sanctions in place ?
Was what he is purported to have done illegal?
It does say "Former" Cabinet minister
There were Sanctions in place that were extended
"nitially the UN Security Council imposed stringent economic sanctions on Iraq by adopting and enforcing United Nations Security Council Resolution 661.[5] After the end of the 1991 Persian Gulf War, those sanctions were extended and elaborated on, including linkage to removal of weapons of mass destruction, by Resolution 687"

Legaility wasn't the point I was trying to make, simply that it is apparently OK or the conservatives to comport with known evil regimes, but not labour.
Here is an example

Pinochet, a truly awful Fascist Swine and another not much better
 
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