Brexit, for once some facts.

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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Nobody and I mean nobody, not us, not the NI, not the UK, not the EU , wants a border on the island of Ireland, in the sea between Ireland and england, or between Dover and Calais.. but it could happen.
Yes you were told that the UKs position was so strong, that the EU was prepared to sacrifice all its principles, to keep you sweet. .. but remind us again who told you that?
The best conclusion would be to recognise that bluster has its place, and its not in international negotiations.
Danidl...you did say that money wasnt the prime obstacle to a deal. Yet it is strange that after we started to make noises about giving £50 billion then the impasse on the Ireland border is suddenly solved (not sure how).
KudosDave
 
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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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that day may never come.
brexit is unlikely to be a disaster, not economically anyway.
Immigration is down 100,000 since the vote, brexit has delivered its first result.
Do you think that 100,000 reduction is positive....I suppose it depends where the reduction came from....if it was from the NHS,Social Care,skilled IT,hospitality industry,that cannot be good news....I think many are leaving because we have indicated we dont want them but probably the weakness of the £ means they can earn better money elsewhere and lower living costs.
KudosDave
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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I agree with your first point which is why I found it bizarre.
It still strikes me as counterproductive at this particular juncture.
The reported speech comes across as vexatious and exasperated rather than authoritative.
Was it given in French or English (sorry I don't watch French news often)?

Being bilingual is an eye opener sometimes. "Lost in Translation" is quite often an understatement. Barnier is quite a level headed chap but maybe he is losing patience? I wonder why... :rolleyes:
 
that day may never come.
brexit is unlikely to be a disaster, not economically anyway.
Immigration is down 100,000 since the vote, brexit has delivered its first result.
Yes, and I think you'll find that "result" isn't a positive for the UK is it? Its only positive if you think immigration is a problem.

This is exactly my point, the only way you show people we need immigrants to fill jobs we can't / don't want to do... is to take them away and see the impact.

When people can't see a doctor, can't get a cleaner and their fruit / veg isn't picked they will realise that immigration is needed, if it wasn't they'd not come.
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Interesting comment from Morgan Stanley today. In a report to clients , from Graham Secker an equity strategist with them,
" mass nationalisation of industries,higher business taxes along with increased public spending as proposed by Labour leader Jetemy Corbyn will wreak great havoc with Uk economy, this is much more scary than Brexit" ( His words not mine)

He also suggests Brexit combined with a labour government will drive the UK into recession.
But he,s only another stupid economist, probably American or worse a Tory ???

On the " divorce bill" payment....would have made far more sense to crash out, save the £40kkk ( plus) and either save it to buy back in if things go to pot or invest it...in our infrastructure , business etc...Our government sponsored investment is small fry ( £2.5 kkk) compared to this, and HS2...

We are playing into EU hands, without a doubt all the noisy remainers are to blame for our current weakened position..

Are labour ever going to offer viable opposition, their current bury your heads in the sand and spout ideology sounds great but plays straight into the right,s hands.

I notice my comment about Herr Henkel has been conveniently ignored...
Noisy Remainers....I dont think so....any discussion with a Brexiteer on the TV inevitably causes ranting from the Leaver,just try having a conversation with the likes of Carol Malone,she has a gold medal in ranting.
Same on Question Time,any mention of not leaving and the Brexiteers throw their toys out of the pram.
Ever watched Stig Abel on the press review,a very sensible guy IMHO,if he is paired with a Brexiteer he cant get a word in.
There is something about Brexit that causes Leavers to become raving lunatics any time anyone suggests that maybe its not a good idea.
Remainers tend to have a resigned acceptance that we are waiting for the wonderful day that we are promised but dont believe....its sort of like the charge of the Light Brigade riding into a death trap,history recorded that event as brave suicide,maybe that defines Brexit.
KudosDave
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Experience is better then arguments at changing minds.
Assuming that those minds are open to persuasion of course, other than that provided by Right Wing Media.Which recently has pulled off a quite remarkable reversal over Not Pay/ Pay the money to the EU and covered it over with Royal Engagement Bilge.

No reaction at all from the Brexit Voters it would seem.
It will take a very big stick to encourage this particular Group to think logically.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Interesting comment from Morgan Stanley today. In a report to clients , from Graham Secker an equity strategist with them,
" mass nationalisation of industries,higher business taxes along with increased public spending as proposed by Labour leader Jetemy Corbyn will wreak great havoc with Uk economy, this is much more scary than Brexit" ( His words not mine)

He also suggests Brexit combined with a labour government will drive the UK into recession.
But he,s only another stupid economist, probably American or worse a Tory ???

On the " divorce bill" payment....would have made far more sense to crash out, save the £40kkk ( plus) and either save it to buy back in if things go to pot or invest it...in our infrastructure , business etc...Our government sponsored investment is small fry ( £2.5 kkk) compared to this, and HS2...

We are playing into EU hands, without a doubt all the noisy remainers are to blame for our current weakened position..

Are labour ever going to offer viable opposition, their current bury your heads in the sand and spout ideology sounds great but plays straight into the right,s hands.

I notice my comment about Herr Henkel has been conveniently ignored...
Do we really know what the effects of 'crashing out' are? Theresa May seems desperate to avoid whatever the costs,hence the £50 billion.
I am of the opinion that we should try crashing out,I hate the idea of giving all this money to the EU,but I am lucky that I suspect I will survive,but those on slim incomes or maybe nil incomes,what will be the effect on them????
KudosDave
 
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Woosh

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Do you think that 100,000 reduction is positive....I suppose it depends where the reduction came from....if it was from the NHS,Social Care,skilled IT,hospitality industry,that cannot be good news....I think many are leaving because we have indicated we dont want them but probably the weakness of the £ means they can earn better money elsewhere and lower living costs.
KudosDave
actually, yes.
The current level is 3 times more sustainable compared to before.
The weakness of the Pound also helps.
People who come here are more likely to to stay long term.
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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OK so sell me a product or a service, whatever it is you do. I will use it and of course refuse to pay for it.

The UK has signed obligations to pay monies for various things in the EU. There is no "divorce bill" it is just paying what is owed. You can disagree or offensive language all you wish it doesn't stop this being fact...
It looks like there are commitments best described as definite that we have to pay,these seem like the £18billion,then there are 'grey' commitments which are open to negotiation,then there are future projects that we only pay if we are nice people. Dont forget the transition period also helps the EU to get its house in order,post Brexit,these matters are not one sided.
KudosDave
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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brexit is unlikely to be a disaster, not economically anyway.
Really? my now that is interesting, from who's perspective may I ask?
In Victorian times the Economy was immense and booming and the poor starved and lived short, miserable and disease riddled lives.

A booming economy is NOT the main factor in measuring the success of a Society.

"Not even the apparently enlightened principle of the 'greatest good for the greatest number' can excuse indifference to individual suffering. There is no test for progress other than its impact on the individual."

Aneurin Bevan
 

oldgroaner

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Was it given in French or English (sorry I don't watch French news often)?

Being bilingual is an eye opener sometimes. "Lost in Translation" is quite often an understatement. Barnier is quite a level headed chap but maybe he is losing patience? I wonder why... :rolleyes:
Possibly because having experience of how Nigel Farage behaved he now knows what an English Imbecile looks, sounds and behaves like, when he encounters one, a useful trait that appallingly was, and still is lacking in the skill set of Brexit Voters.
 
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Kudoscycles

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Assuming that those minds are open to persuasion of course, other than that provided by Right Wing Media.Which recently has pulled off a quite remarkable reversal over Not Pay/ Pay the money to the EU and covered it over with Royal Engagement Bilge.

No reaction at all from the Brexit Voters it would seem.
It will take a very big stick to encourage this particular Group to think logically.
The trouble with the Brexit argument is for us Remainers to be proved right the UK will go down the pan,which obviously nobody wants.
I just cant see how post Brexit Hammond is going to avoid going into a period of austerity the like of which we havent seen in this country,he needs to start reducing the deficit and our debt....if Rees-Mogg and the 'bastard 35' get anywhere near the budget I fear that those poor people who voted Brexit as a protest vote and improve their life style are going to go very hungry,big corporations will be exempted from the pain.
KudosDave
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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that day may never come.
brexit is unlikely to be a disaster, not economically anyway.
Immigration is down 100,000 since the vote, brexit has delivered its first result.
Woosh,you seem to have become a much more commited Leaver since the EU has threatened the anti-dumping duty on e-bikes. Remember that Theresa May/Hammond may decide to keep these tariffs post Brexit and pocket the duties into the UK coffers.
Excepting a free trade deal with China,you know that would be a disaster for many of our under invested UK industries. For me personally it would be very good but maybe too far ahead.
KudosDave
 
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Woosh,you seem to have become a much more commited Leaver since the EU has threatened the anti-dumping duty on e-bikes. Remember that Theresa May/Hammond may decide to keep these tariffs post Brexit and pocket the duties into the UK coffers.
Excepting a free trade deal with China,you know that would be a disaster for many of our under invested UK industries. For me personally it would be very good but maybe too far ahead.
KudosDave
Bicycle Association have advised.

"EU-level measures such as anti-dumping would have to be separately
implemented, though, by a post-Brexit UK if not still part of the customs
union, and the recent trade white paper addresses this saying the UK would
need to set up its own trade remedies processes (section
5.1):

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-vision-for-post
-eu-trade-and-customs-policy

There's a sub-section there about existing EU anti dumping measures - these
could lapse immediately for the UK post 'no deal' Brexit unless carried over
by a separate UK implementation... the process for which is not yet in
place."

Can you imagine how many things aren't currently in place across all the sectors. Its insane.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Really? my now that is interesting, from who's perspective may I ask?
I watched the BBC Daily Politics today at lunch time. They took their yellow balls to Eltham, the only place in London that voted for brexit. The vast majority 'go bananas' at the news that our government has agreed to stump up £50 very large ones. Most people who voted for brexit still could not see that the money is for past and present liabilities, not paying for a trade deal. As far as they are concerned, they still on the side of IDS, we shouldn't pay a penny unless we get a good deal.
My conclusion? the people who put their yellow ball to the 'agree with the £50b' not only understand the way the EU works but also can look after themselves. They won't run into any particular trouble if the deal is not very good. Those who 'go bananas' are not affected much more than the 3% inflation. They are not particularly concerned by any deal.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Woosh,you seem to have become a much more commited Leaver since the EU has threatened the anti-dumping duty on e-bikes. Remember that Theresa May/Hammond may decide to keep these tariffs post Brexit and pocket the duties into the UK coffers.
Excepting a free trade deal with China,you know that would be a disaster for many of our under invested UK industries. For me personally it would be very good but maybe too far ahead.
KudosDave
I am for a moderate anti dumping on Chinese e-bikes. It will pay for the eventual additional cost of assembling e-bikes in the UK.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Those who 'go bananas' are not affected much more than the 3% inflation. They are not particularly concerned by any deal.
Really? so everything will be fine and dandy will it?
How VERY reassuring!
Sorry but that is about as far from the truth as anyone can possibly get.
They are about to be "Rogered with a Rag Man's Rusty Trumpet" by the Government and Austerity on Steroids, plus 17 years (as reported) of Wage Cuts)
What could possibly go wrong?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Southend on Sea
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Really? so everything will be fine and dandy will it?
How VERY reassuring!
Sorry but that is about as far from the truth as anyone can possibly get.
They are about to be "Rogered with a Rag Man's Rusty Trumpet" by the Government and Austerity on Steroids, plus 17 years (as reported) of Wage Cuts)
What could possibly go wrong?
the austerity affects mainly the poorest 20% - a lot of brexiters have higher income than them.
Also, the effect of 17 years wage stagnation (as you said, as reported, eg past stagnation) is going to be mitigated by the 3% inflation. Don't count on it to change people's vote.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Danidl...you did say that money wasnt the prime obstacle to a deal. Yet it is strange that after we started to make noises about giving £50 billion then the impasse on the Ireland border is suddenly solved (not sure how).
KudosDave
I am not aware that the irish border problem has been sorted... today's irish papers don't have any such information. What information do you have and from what source. ? As you might expect I have a vested interest here.
 
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