Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
but that is like burying your head in the sand. It's going to happen.
Absolutely right, it just seems odd that the Government doesn't realise how risky it is to remind the voters of their responsibility for the situation!
Last edited:
Not at all, as I have already said, this is simply a stage in a process not an end in itself.
It has to be endured and nothing we can come up with will do other than delay the inevitable absorption into the United States of Europe in time.
Brexit is just the future taking a turn into a blind alley.
When we hit the wall at the end, we will need to reverse out again and once more head into the right direction, into Europe
Probably going to happen!!! . The point OG and others are making is that there is no good Brexit, just bad and degrees of worse. So asking them for their preferred version is zero, followed by very close to the same.
there is no predictable reason that brexit will fail.
Most of the brexit topics concern trade with the EU, little else.
Trade does not make happiness, and there will be winners and losers whichever way we go.
It wasn't even the will of the people. 17\15 with a substantial tranche of the people most effected disallowed from voting.
If it were, the politicians in the UK have a moral duty to lead their people. They are not their representatives as much as their leaders. In this they have a different mandate than Irish and I assume French politicans who are subject to written consitutions
Brexit is not guaranteed to fail, likewise it is not guaranteed to succeed. There are predictors that it will make life harder on UK subjects. Many of them have been aired by now.
And the EU is about more than trade deals...as you with your entitlement to bolt back to France full well realise. Whether you opt or intend to do so is irrelevant, but you have that option .
Wondering about you having a Woosh in France Tony, I entered Woosh into some translators. This is what one site showed:
I think you should sue!
.
The 'terminally stupid'.....I guess that's the 'duh-brains' who hung on every word of the mendacious shysters who lied through their teeth to the nation and still do it at every opportunity.
It amazes me that some keep debating whether this or that type of 'Brexit' would be best for the UK without comparing any merits with the status quo situation of the full EU membership package. As yet, no alternative begins to approach what we enjoy right now. If 'Brexidiots' wish to provide the best resolution for the citizens of the UK, then A50 should be withdrawn forthwith and necessary apologies proffered for the annoyance we have been to the serious players in the hugely desirable EU.
Tom
You'll be missed Monsieur. I don't suppose you could be persuaded to take an internet troll back to France with you?...for a small fee naturellement!
Tom
If you think that is all that is happening you are in for a surprise!
There has been a sinister shift in the relationship between government and Voter, and the way Political Power hs fallen into the hands of those who will abuse it, overstep the mark and cause a severe adverse reaction resulting in social chaos.
How do I link that with the Brexit vote? Because Corbyn has said this
"But in a break with this recent reticence, Corbyn told the Andrew Marr Show the single market “has within it restrictions in state aid and state spending. That has pressures on it through the European Union to privatise rail for example and other services.”
See what I mean?
The leader of the opposition appears not to know the facts.
Sorry for linking the two separate posts there.....something went awry!
That is unfettered hyperbole (fake news) to suggest that 25 EU states are just as much in the mire as the UK....or worse off. The UK has featured bottom of a number of tables according to a variety of respected polls and surveys over the last couple of years.
It's interesting that you should feature Germany and Denmark as being different, (presumably better), than the others. Those are two states engaged, very successfully, in capitalist enterprise but operating within a framework of democratic socialism. Sadly, the British notion of democracy is a sham for a variety of reasons and has robbed the British people of proper representation and will continue to so do until we adopt proportional representation.
Tom
I get so tired of hearing this as in Scotland we voted over 60% to remain and since then all protestations have been ignored. To make it worse the effects of Brexit are likely to be worse here than elsewhere given our export trade, however this is difficult to quantify as the conclusions of a study regarding this have been withheld from Scottish Ministers by the Tory Government.
It's bad enough here George, I can't imagine how you must feel!
Now, with so many more of the facts available and a practical demonstration of what exiting Europe will do to our little country, wouldn't it be sensible to have a second referendum? I can imagine such a move would not be welcomed by the die hard Brexiteers amongst us, let's face it, it's pretty certain we would not be leaving, but surely there is a certain kind of sense to it?
This may have been discussed already on this Titanic thread, if so it must be worth considering again?
Now, with so many more of the facts available and a practical demonstration of what exiting Europe will do to our little country, wouldn't it be sensible to have a second referendum? I can imagine such a move would not be welcomed by the die hard Brexiteers amongst us, let's face it, it's pretty certain we would not be leaving, but surely there is a certain kind of sense to it?
This may have been discussed already on this Titanic thread, if so it must be worth considering again?
there is a moral issue with a second referendum. The leaflet that DC sent out before the referendum made is clear that 'our government will implement your decision'. Going back on it means that the tories can't be and won't be trusted for years to come.
With hindsight, there should have been a third choice, that would have introduced the necessary safety margin in the result: leave, remain, or undecided. Neither leave nor remain would have won, the result would be a new referendum.
With hindsight, there should have been a third choice, that would have introduced the necessary safety margin in the result: leave, remain, or undecided. Neither leave nor remain would have won, the result would be a new referendum.
Governments change their mind, parliament's change their mind. Laws get enacted and repealed. A publicity flyer does not even have the weight of a government decision let alone that of a parliamentary bill. The moral duty , even if had existed, and its author has resigned because he would not implement it has been well and truly carried out...
Whether it is accepted or not , a new election brings with it new mandates and all ongoing business from the old adminstration collapses. Where there is legalisation in place, it holds sway but all pending business, must start afresh... At least thats how its done in democracies.
From the Telegraph
"
EU officials scornful over UK's performance in Brexit negotiations, leaked report shows
he Government's performance in theBrexit negotiationshas been branded chaotic and incoherent, according to a leaked paper setting out the private views of European officials.
An internal Irish government document reveals top EU figures describing Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, as "unimpressive".
The confidential document, which has been obtained by RTE news, also shows officials bemoaning "the quality of politicians in Westminster".
It also notes that Brexit was "Barely mentioned in a meeting between David Davis the Brexit Secretary and French officials"
Barely mentioned? could it be he has become Bored with the job?
"
EU officials scornful over UK's performance in Brexit negotiations, leaked report shows
he Government's performance in theBrexit negotiationshas been branded chaotic and incoherent, according to a leaked paper setting out the private views of European officials.
An internal Irish government document reveals top EU figures describing Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, as "unimpressive".
The confidential document, which has been obtained by RTE news, also shows officials bemoaning "the quality of politicians in Westminster".
It also notes that Brexit was "Barely mentioned in a meeting between David Davis the Brexit Secretary and French officials"
Barely mentioned? could it be he has become Bored with the job?
I have always wanted to live in one of those - probably too old now to see it in the UK but I might end up in one of the states within the USofE. That would come close.
Tom