Brexit, for once some facts.

[PeterL]

'The Morning Star' is not a publication I have ever read but I found this today on another forum and it seems to be a good article, explaining why the major banks are not happy with the current direction of 'Brexit'.

a-b52f-Why-are-the-big-banks-so-keen-on-British-single-market-membership

Tom

Somewhat amazingly, for me to admit, but, there was much in this article to agree with. Bottom line is that Brexit is the only way to reverse where we are and achieve what we all want!

That does seem to be at odds with the conclusion reached by OT, I wonder why - have I misread something here? On reflection perhaps this was OT just offering balanced input, without due comment?

 

[Woosh]

That does seem to be at odds with the conclusion reached by OT, I wonder why - have I misread something here?

OT and OG don't say anything about which brexit they want, albeit that's where we are heading.

Hammond has allowed £3billion in the budget for 'no-deal' scenario....but no mention of £38billion if we get a deal.!!!
KudosDave

he was selective.
We still have to cough up the money in case we crash out with no deal.
The EU wants a firm commitment that the money will be there before they start talking trade, and they will say 'we have a search and replace CETA treaty ready for you'.
CETA covers already farming produce and fisheries.

• wines and spirits
• fruit and vegetables
• processed products
• cheese
• Europe's traditional specialities (known as 'geographical indications').

CETA will:

• remove customs duties
• help make European firms more competitive in Canada
• make it easier for EU firms to bid for Canadian public contracts
• open up the Canadian services market to EU companies
• open up markets for European food and drink exports
• protect traditional European food and drink products (known as Geographical Indications) from being copied
• cut EU exporters' costs while upholding standards
• benefit small and medium-sized EU firms
• benefit EU consumers
• make it easier for European professionals to work in Canada
• allow for the mutual recognition of some qualifications
• create predictable conditions for both EU and Canadian investors
• make it easier for European firms to invest in Canada
• help Europe's creative industries, innovators and artists
• support people's rights at work and the environment.

 

[oldgroaner]

Somewhat amazingly, for me to admit, but, there was much in this article to agree with. Bottom line is that Brexit is the only way to reverse where we are and achieve what we all want!

That does seem to be at odds with the conclusion reached by OT, I wonder why - have I misread something here? On reflection perhaps this was OT just offering balanced input, without due comment?

You do realise that you will have to vote for Corbyn to make that happen don't you?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[PeterL]

You do realise that you will have to vote for Corbyn to make that happen don't you?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Now that would be amazing, I did say 'much in this article...' not all!

 

[oldgroaner]

For General Information the EU laws do not prevent Nationalisation of the Railways, merely that they are open to private Competition, so the statement that Brexit allow state ownership of the Railway is yet another Urban Myth
https://www.tssa.org.uk/en/whats-new/news/index.cfm/are-eu-rules-really-a-barrier-to-reuniting-the-railways-under-public-control
"
‘It's against European Law’ is one of the arguments often raised against reunifying the railways under public control. The others are that the involvement of the private sector brings innovation, greater investment and greater efficiency, and that it would cost too much to buy back the assets.

But as the Rebuilding Rail report by independent think tank Transport for Quality of Life very clearly shows, European rules do not dictate that railways must be fully privatised. Nor is there a requirement for railway infrastructure to be in private ownership or a ban on train services being operated by a government-owned enterprise."

Next pack of lies from the leave fans please.

 

[oldgroaner]

Astonishing that the Tory sorry Murdoch Daily rags are extolling the Budget as being an upbeat one and sign of the Brexit Boom.
When a more realistic analysis is here
"
UK facing longest fall in living standards for over 60 years, finds think tank
The Resolution Foundation has said the British economy will be £42bn smaller by 2022 than we thought in March
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html.
It all gets down to the question, who can you believe?
On the one hand we have the Resolution Foundation
"
The Resolution Foundation is a non-partisan and award-winning think-tank that works to improve the living standards of those in Britain on low to middle incomes.

We conduct authoritative analytical research on living standards in the UK and produce effective policy solutions that help shape the debate on economic and social policy. To do this we work across a wide range of issues such as low pay and the minimum wage, the future of the labour market, intergenerational fairness, social mobility, reforming the tax and benefit system, household debt, childcare and housing policy. We hold a regular programme of events drawing on experts from a diverse range of backgrounds – academia, employers, the voluntary sector and the City. We engage with politicians from across the political spectrum.

We are currently hosting the Intergenerational Commission, bringing together leaders from business, academia and policy-making to devise a means of repairing the social contract between generations.

The Resolution Foundation has been awarded UK Social Policy Think Tank of the Year (2015), UK Think Tank of the Year (2013), and UK Social Policy Think Tank of the Year and Publication of the Year (2012).
And on the other Hand we have two contesting claimants to be the Conservative Government
Idential low grade copies of the cast of Monty Python's Flying Circus, fighting like Rats in a sack suspended over a bonfire for control of
parliament, intent on destroying the country using death by Brexit technology, aided by the very latest "Artificial Stupidity" provided by the Murdoch Press.

Difficult choice of who to believe?.
only for the terminally stupid

 

[Woosh]

It all gets down to the question, who can you believe?

what do you expect? it has to get worse before it gets better. Brexit is a big step change. There will be winners and losers, at the moment, we can guess who are the losers but the only early identified winners are the super rich.

 

[oldgroaner]

what do you expect? it has to get worse before it gets better. Brexit is a big step change. There will be winners and losers, at the moment, we can guess who are the losers but the only early identified winners are the super rich.

Early? I suspect "Ever" to be the more appropriate.
Time people ask
"Why does it have to get worse when we were promised it would get better?"

 

[PeterL]

Next pack of lies from the leave fans please.

Quite how you feel able to link the Brexit Vote with the re-Nationalisation of the Railways escapes me. You won't find many of your hated Tories wanting to renationalise anything, let alone the Railways! Having said that, this particular person is always open to a sound economic argument.

 

[PeterL]

Early? I suspect "Ever" to be the more appropriate.
Time people ask
"Why does it have to get worse when we were promised it would get better?"

Fortunately, tomorrow never comes OG. But, surely even you have to admit that things are much better now than they were 50 years ago. It's the people that have changed - they expect more...

 

[PeterL]

Astonishing that the Tory sorry Murdoch Daily rags are extolling the Budget as being an upbeat one and sign of the Brexit Boom.
When a more realistic analysis is here
"
UK facing longest fall in living standards for over 60 years, finds think tank
The Resolution Foundation has said the British economy will be £42bn smaller by 2022 than we thought in March
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html.
It all gets down to the question, who can you believe?
On the one hand we have the Resolution Foundation
"
The Resolution Foundation is a non-partisan and award-winning think-tank that works to improve the living standards of those in Britain on low to middle incomes.

We conduct authoritative analytical research on living standards in the UK and produce effective policy solutions that help shape the debate on economic and social policy. To do this we work across a wide range of issues such as low pay and the minimum wage, the future of the labour market, intergenerational fairness, social mobility, reforming the tax and benefit system, household debt, childcare and housing policy. We hold a regular programme of events drawing on experts from a diverse range of backgrounds – academia, employers, the voluntary sector and the City. We engage with politicians from across the political spectrum.

We are currently hosting the Intergenerational Commission, bringing together leaders from business, academia and policy-making to devise a means of repairing the social contract between generations.

The Resolution Foundation has been awarded UK Social Policy Think Tank of the Year (2015), UK Think Tank of the Year (2013), and UK Social Policy Think Tank of the Year and Publication of the Year (2012).
And on the other Hand we have two contesting claimants to be the Conservative Government
Idential low grade copies of the cast of Monty Python's Flying Circus, fighting like Rats in a sack suspended over a bonfire for control of
parliament, intent on destroying the country using death by Brexit technology, aided by the very latest "Artificial Stupidity" provided by the Murdoch Press.

Difficult choice of who to believe?.
only for the terminally stupid

That was an easy question you posed there OG. It's obvious, even to me - you dropped so many clues that it was a no-brainer.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here's a thought; from the tenor of the Budget it would seem that the Government has abandoned blaming the EU for the fact that the future is dim, nor is it blaming either itself or the bankers for fiscal mismanagement.

OH no! the new plan is to blame the Public for wanting Brexit,and making the Government's job oh so terribly hard to deliver "The will of the People"
Perhaps in this way they hope to avoid responsibility and public anger?

 

[PeterL]

Here's a thought; from the tenor of the Budget it would seem that the Government has abandoned blaming the EU for the fact that the future is dim, nor is it blaming either itself or the bankers for fiscal mismanagement.

OH no! the new plan is to blame the Public for wanting Brexit,and making the Government's job oh so terribly hard to deliver "The will of the People"
Perhaps in this way they hope to avoid responsibility and public anger?

Not sure what you saying here OG. Not aware that any blame, as such, has been placed on any person or body of late. We are where we are, owing an awful lot of money, and it's not a particularly nice place to be. For it's worth the EU, or at least just about every country in it, other than Germany / Denmark is in much the same situation and for some a far worse place.

 

[oldgroaner]

Fortunately, tomorrow never comes OG. But, surely even you have to admit that things are much better now than they were 50 years ago. It's the people that have changed - they expect more...

That's the first sensible thing you've said.
They do indeed expect more, but then they were not born in someone else's air raid shelter during a raid, fter their mother had been bombed out twice during the pregnancy, or lived in a city like this
"Hull was the most severely damaged British city or town during the Second World War, with 95 percent of houses damaged. It was under air raid alert for 1,000 hours."
Lived in hand me down clothes, fed on rations, and went to schools where we didn't have books, just a single sheet of paper for each lesson.
Perhaps to agree with Jackass Grease Smug that that is all that the lower classes deserve?
I Expect more too

 

[PeterL]

Thought this was a worthwhile quote

probably applies, even more so, to the internet.

 

[Woosh]

OH no! the new plan is to blame the Public for wanting Brexit,and making the Government's job oh so terribly hard to deliver "The will of the People"
Perhaps in this way they hope to avoid responsibility and public anger?

that is so far not a lie.
The public voted for brexit and as long as the public still chooses brexit if asked, then it is still 'the will of the people', the politicians have the moral duty to implement it.
OG, it's time you should declare which brexit you'd like to see.

 

[PeterL]

That's the first sensible thing you've said.
They do indeed expect more, but then they were not born in someone else's air raid shelter during a raid, fter their mother had been bombed out twice during the pregnancy, or lived in a city like this
"Hull was the most severely damaged British city or town during the Second World War, with 95 percent of houses damaged. It was under air raid alert for 1,000 hours."
Lived in hand me down clothes, fed on rations, and went to schools where we didn't have books, just a single sheet of paper for each lesson.
Perhaps to agree with Jackass Grease Smug that that is all that the lower classes deserve?
I Expect more too

We can all play that game. I was in Liverpool, people tell me that was tough, but obviously not as tough as Hull!

I expect more too - Of course you do, we all do. Some however, expect more without any obligation.

 

[oldgroaner]

Not sure what you saying here OG. Not aware that any blame, as such, has been placed on any person or body of late. We are where we are, owing an awful lot of money, and it's not a particularly nice place to be. For it's worth the EU, or at least just about every country in it, other than Germany / Denmark is in much the same situation and for some a far worse place.

As usual an Urban Myth
http://uk.businessinsider.com/glassdoor-economich-research-european-countries-with-highest-standard-of-living-2016-4
"Britain languishes in the bottom half of the country rankings due to the huge amount of money Britons spend on housing.

 

[flecc]

OH no! the new plan is to blame the Public for wanting Brexit,and making the Government's job oh so terribly hard to deliver "The will of the People"

About time, they are to blame. Although I thought offering the referendum was daft, the government wasn't to blame for the outcome. That rests solely with the voters.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

that is so far not a lie.
The public voted for brexit and as long as the public still chooses brexit if asked, then it is still 'the will of the people', the politicians have the moral duty to implement it.
OG, it's time you should declare which brexit you'd like to see.

I do not want Brexit in any shape or Form they will all prove extremely damaging and a stupid act of sabotage to the future of the country.

You are asking me to make a choice between cyanide and Strychnine.
No thanks!