Brexit, for once some facts.

PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
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Barrow and Furness Constituency Labour Party put this out on social media and it encapsulates exactly the tyranny being enacted against the poor and needy under this tory government.

Not only that; the local tory party's statement is revealing and serves to demonstrate how tories view those less fortunate than themselves.

This part is from the local Labour Party:

Below is an awful reply from the local Tory party to a local constituent voicing her concerns about their joy at a rise in constituents being turned down for vital out of work benefits. We wholly condemn their comments and hope they retract them and apologise.

State punishments have been dished out to hundreds of disabled people across Cumbria who were deemed to have failed to complete 'work related activities' in the last five years.

Figures obtained by CN Group reveal 771 people registered with a disability across the county have been issued with a benefits sanction by the government since December 2012. These figures have then been misrepresented by the government as getting people off benefits.

It means residents on employment support allowance - those officially deemed too ill to work - have been left without money for food or bills for an average of 28 days at a time.

Disabled rights champion Margaret Burrows, MBE, who runs the Barrow and District Disability Association, said the sanctions were driving people to the foodbank.

This is what the local tory party had to say:


View attachment 22151

Tories view all poor people just as described in that response to a tory party member.

The future will be more and more of that as unemployment soars in the years after 'Brexit'.

Tom
Tom give it a rest - I'm surprised you even bother to get up the morning. Stop trawling for bad news, you'll always find it out there, some truth in it of course, from both perspectives.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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and being a member of the EU is the solution then?

It would be nice to think that as we were once the 'best' in the World, that we would always remain so. I guess that could have been the case had we chosen to simply rape and pillage but we didn't. We also chose to bring some good to the World, we shared our knowledge and whilst we lost our Empire we still have a lot to be proud of. We still have some of the best Universities in the World and I suspect we taught the Chinese all they know about Nuclear Power and much the same for the US in computers and IT and on it goes. However, it didn't just stop there, they in turn added to the knowledge we gave them, produced bigger and better and crucially, at a price that we couldn't match. This is called International Trade and we're still quite good at it. We build most of the F! and indeed the Indy cars, Industry is still alive and kicking in the Midlands.

In a Global World we trade and we share in the successes, We cannot possibly be self sufficient and the best in class at everything and continue to innovate in a vacuum.

This is not decline, it's progress, wake up and smell the coffee!

Let me remind you, should I need to, that the 'people' in our golden days didn't exactly have a cushy life.
Shouldn't you attribute that post to "Conservative Central Office"?
If we taught the Chinese for instance about Nuclear Power for instance why do we need them to build a power station for us now?
And the industry that is still alive is a shadow of it's former self, isn't it?
lets face is your post contained the sort of Platitudes you get in one of the Horsocopes cast for the simple minded.
No substance, no facts, just propaganda Bull.

Utter irrelevance, if we were so good at "International trade" we would not have been desperate to join the EEC , and only keep our heads above water through access to the EU markets now. once they are gone we will be in real trouble.
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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The clueless tory administration at Westminster introduced electronic vehicle taxation and scrapped the tax disc. Now, while I'm not sure how much the old-fashioned visual windscreen disc system cost to administer, I suspect it comes nowhere near the resultant loss of revenue reported in yesterday's news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42009111?SThisFB

These incompetents are the same people driving the UK towards economic and social isolation among the world's nations.

Tom
While being an advocate for change and progress, I do believe that there are certain of the older ways which should be retained... e.g The discipline of getting a written bank statement, credit card billing , utility bill , telephone bill each month, and not a email reminder that I can go on line was a useful check on financial probity. The requirement to fill up a licence fee application for car tax or MoT , TV licence is part of that process. The putting of the little sticker on the car , gives a feeling of virtue and is a constant reminder.

Finally the use of a paper and pencil marked ballot for elections, and none of these electronic machines.
 
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PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
998
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Dundee
Shouldn't you attribute that post to "Conservative Central Office"?
If we taught the Chinese for instance about Nuclear Power for instance why do we need them to build a power station for us now?
And the industry that is still alive is a shadow of it's former self, isn't it?
lets face is your post contained the sort of Platitudes you get in one of the Horsocopes cast for the simple minded.
No substance, no facts, just propaganda Bull.

Utter irrelevance, if we were so good at "International trade" we would not have been desperate to join the EEC , and only keep our heads above water through access to the EU markets now. once they are gone we will be in real trouble.
I do find hard to understand how anyone can be so negative as to rubbish anything anyone has to say that is positive. Yin and Yang (Urban) comes to mind or better still, how about this anthem for you to listen to in the morning:
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
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Dundee
While being an advocate for change and progress, I do believe that there are certain of the older ways which should be retained... e.g The discipline of getting a written bank statement, credit card billing , utility bill , telephone bill each month, and not a email reminder that I can go on line was a useful check on financial probity. The requirement to fill up a licence fee application for car tax or MoT , TV licence is part of that process. The putting of the little sticker on the car , gives a feeling of virtue and is a constant reminder.

Finally the use of a paper and pencil marked ballot for elections, and none of these electronic machines.
I'm sort of with you having allowed my MOT to over-run by a week or two. But, they now have Email / Text reminder options, in much that same way our local GP prompts for appointments - that certainly works better for me. Could never find the piece of paper when needed, grant you a Tax Disk is fairly clear! Obviously, a Tory plot so that they can catch you out and fine you.
 

PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
If we taught the Chinese for instance about Nuclear Power for instance why do we need them to build a power station for us now?.
They call it progress through development OG. I suspect the Chinese have built rather more Nuclear Reactors than we have. The have more experience than we do, they also have the benefits of scale. Why on earth would we want to go through the whole process when someone else has already done it, properly. We need to be looking forward for the next opportunities, not over our shoulders.
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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As usual, that really had nothing whatsoever to do with with the post. It was just an opportunity to snipe. I had asked him to explain himself not use it as a vehicle to insult, only for you to pick it up and run with it.

Here is the original post

This am on the today programme labour's shadow Chancellor did a relatively reasonable job of describing in part that offshore tax avoiding capital is what really propel brexit, they care about the implications of a hard border, the recession that follows brexit as much as they cared about the peace process, public services when they yanked Theresa's chain to get her to sabotage it by bribing the dup with our money

Tell me what it means please, in English as my French is suspect!
Steb I had great difficulty in making sense of what is a single convoluted sentence. Sorry for being critical.
 
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Danidl

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and being a member of the EU is the solution then?

It would be nice to think that as we were once the 'best' in the World, that we would always remain so. I guess that could have been the case had we chosen to simply rape and pillage but we didn't. We also chose to bring some good to the World, we shared our knowledge and whilst we lost our Empire we still have a lot to be proud of. We still have some of the best Universities in the World and I suspect we taught the Chinese all they know about Nuclear Power and much the same for the US in computers and IT and on it goes. However, it didn't just stop there, they in turn added to the knowledge we gave them, produced bigger and better and crucially, at a price that we couldn't match. This is called International Trade and we're still quite good at it. We build most of the F! and indeed the Indy cars, Industry is still alive and kicking in the Midlands.

In a Global World we trade and we share in the successes, We cannot possibly be self sufficient and the best in class at everything and continue to innovate in a vacuum.

This is not decline, it's progress, wake up and smell the coffee!

Let me remind you, should I need to, that the 'people' in our golden days didn't exactly have a cushy life.
In a very real sense being within the eu redefines foreign and local so yes being in EU helps. In exactly the same way that ownership of large tracts of Scotland by consortia of Essex dentists is local ownership so is the fleets of French owned buses in London also local. When Brexit occurs they then revert to foreign .
As and if the UK distances itself from mainland European science its opportunities will diminish. The sale of Arm holdings should have been seen as the death knell it is rather than than the triumph it was posted as.
The impending loss of the eu medicines research agency from London is such an own goal in the area of biopharma that it beggers belief.. so how long will the U.K. reputation in academia remain.
I fully agree with your question ... "how can the UK continue to innovate in a vacuum..?" . But my conclusion might differ from yours. !
 
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PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
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In a very real sense being within the eu redefines foreign and local so yes being in EU helps. In exactly the same way that ownership of large tracts of Scotland by consortia of Essex dentists is local ownership so is the fleets of French owned buses in London also local. When Brexit occurs they then revert to foreign .
As and if the UK distances itself from mainland European science its opportunities will diminish. The sale of Arm holdings should have been seen as the death knell it is rather than than the triumph it was posted as.
The impending loss of the eu medicines research agency from London is such an own goal in the area of biopharma that it beggers belief.. so how long will the U.K. reputation in academia remain.
I fully agree with your question ... "how can the UK continue to innovate in a vacuum..?" . But my conclusion might differ from yours. !
Dan

I am certainly not suggesting that everything in the garden is perfectly OK, more generalising I guess, in the face of complete negativity. Quite where we end up, Post-Brexit remains to be seen. I say hopefully, no doubt to be criticised by the usual culprits, that we won't see the Armageddon suggested by them.

I'm not so sure that French Bus companies becoming foreign will impact greatly, if at all. Truth be told the cupboard is bare and filling it with plunder from Paradise wouldn't solve our problem, that will take far more than money to resolve. That is about as negative as you will get me. We need a shake-up and I suspect we're going to get one. Fiddling while Rome burns, comes to mind.
 
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anotherkiwi

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Jan 26, 2015
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While being an advocate for change and progress, I do believe that there are certain of the older ways which should be retained... e.g The discipline of getting a written bank statement, credit card billing , utility bill , telephone bill each month, and not a email reminder that I can go on line was a useful check on financial probity. The requirement to fill up a licence fee application for car tax or MoT , TV licence is part of that process. The putting of the little sticker on the car , gives a feeling of virtue and is a constant reminder.

Finally the use of a paper and pencil marked ballot for elections, and none of these electronic machines.
I'm with you up to the word "discipline" but I have no issues with the digital option because, thanks to a long period as working poor, I have a financial discipline that makes e-mail reminders unnecessary. My yearly (not weekly or monthly) budget is planned ahead, no surprises one way or the other.

No car.

I haven't voted in over 40 years (no voting rights).
 

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
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I'm with you up to the word "discipline" but I have no issues with the digital option because, thanks to a long period as working poor, I have a financial discipline that makes e-mail reminders unnecessary. My yearly (not weekly or monthly) budget is planned ahead, no surprises one way or the other.

No car.

I haven't voted in over 40 years (no voting rights).
Commendable, but it's not me unfortunately, never been that organised. I'm more of a wing and a prayer, man (which won't surprise many on here). Partly down to having been self-employed for the past 30 years but also having been an electronics engineer in the Army. We didn't have everything we needed so, if necessary, we went out and stole (borrowed) it! In those days, I could walk into a strange room and do an almost instant inventory which I carried with me until needed - quite useful.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Daniel
I do owe you yet another apology. I have checked back and yes you have criticised posters from both sides of this discussion. My apologies.
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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I'm with you up to the word "discipline" but I have no issues with the digital option because, thanks to a long period as working poor, I have a financial discipline that makes e-mail reminders unnecessary. My yearly (not weekly or monthly) budget is planned ahead, no surprises one way or the other.

No car.

I haven't voted in over 40 years (no voting rights).
Well in my case I have multiple dependents, and there are many cases of "when needs must" . So unplanned expenditure is a weekly occurrence. Case in point, I had occasion to travel urgently via Dublin to London this week and back by car. Flights would not do. My own cars battery failed for first time ever at 7:00 am, boat leaving 8:45 am, journey time 65 minutes . gate closed 8:30. Took wife's car missed gate for boat, by 10 minutes took next but slower boat 5 hrs later,. She needed car , jury duty, so garage tow and new battery 170 euro. .. unplanned but necessary expenditure. Had it failed on a normal day, I would have sorted it for 100.
Getting a statement will help me not forget these incidents, so keeping me on the straight and narrow.
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Tom give it a rest - I'm surprised you even bother to get up the morning. Stop trawling for bad news, you'll always find it out there, some truth in it of course, from both perspectives.
Why am I not surprised that you appear not to care one jot about the disabled and the poor? I condemn that inhumane treatment of other human beings.

For you apparently, it's simple to just ignore the plight of those people, even though thousands have died as a direct result of tory policies in the area of social welfare. I don't understand how human beings in what we usually consider is a civilised country can have so little empathy for the disadvantaged. I raised that matter here just to illustrate the disgraceful attitude of tories towards the poor, the disabled and the otherwise disadvantaged.

These are same people who are going to create even more disadvantaged and poor people by recklessly taking the UK out of the EU, against the expressed wish of nearly 50% of those who responded in a referendum.

Tom
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Well in my case I have multiple dependents, and there are many cases of "when needs must" . So unplanned expenditure is a weekly occurrence. Case in point, I had occasion to travel urgently via Dublin to London this week and back by car. Flights would not do. My own cars battery failed for first time ever at 7:00 am, boat leaving 8:45 am, journey time 65 minutes . gate closed 8:30. Took wife's car missed gate for boat, by 10 minutes took next but slower boat 5 hrs later,. She needed car , jury duty, so garage tow and new battery 170 euro. .. unplanned but necessary expenditure. Had it failed on a normal day, I would have sorted it for 100.
Getting a statement will help me not forget these incidents, so keeping me on the straight and narrow.
Ouch!

Tom
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
I am certainly not suggesting that everything in the garden is perfectly OK, more generalising I guess, in the face of complete negativity. Quite where we end up, Post-Brexit remains to be seen. I say hopefully, no doubt to be criticised by the usual culprits, that we won't see the Armageddon suggested by them.
You really don't have a clue what will befall this nation after 'Brexit' but you seem pretty relaxed about it. I suppose that's because you have always had it easy in your life, the army being mummy and daddy to you for much of it.

Some of us had it tough but were fortunate enough to make good with the help of others. My upbringing was hard but some had it much harder than me. OG is from Yorkshire and this film clip is testimony to how things were back then when he was a lad:


See! You don't even know the meaning of tough when compared to the folks on the other side of the Pennines.:)

Tom
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
While being an advocate for change and progress, I do believe that there are certain of the older ways which should be retained... e.g The discipline of getting a written bank statement, credit card billing , utility bill , telephone bill each month, and not a email reminder that I can go on line was a useful check on financial probity. The requirement to fill up a licence fee application for car tax or MoT , TV licence is part of that process. The putting of the little sticker on the car , gives a feeling of virtue and is a constant reminder.

Finally the use of a paper and pencil marked ballot for elections, and none of these electronic machines.
I'm probably an exception in my age group, but I much prefer the online digital way and it's sheer convenience, so much less hassle than these things used to be,

Life will be that much tougher for archaeologists in future though, no paper trails and digital media in formats they have no way of reading.
.
 
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PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
Why am I not surprised that you appear not to care one jot about the disabled and the poor? I condemn that inhumane treatment of other human beings.

For you apparently, it's simple to just ignore the plight of those people, even though thousands have died as a direct result of tory policies in the area of social welfare. I don't understand how human beings in what we usually consider is a civilised country can have so little empathy for the disadvantaged. I raised that matter here just to illustrate the disgraceful attitude of tories towards the poor, the disabled and the otherwise disadvantaged.

These are same people who are going to create even more disadvantaged and poor people by recklessly taking the UK out of the EU, against the expressed wish of nearly 50% of those who responded in a referendum.

Tom
Tom you get me wrong and you're grossly unfair.
 

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
You really don't have a clue what will befall this nation after 'Brexit' but you seem pretty relaxed about it. I suppose that's because you have always had it easy in your life, the army being mummy and daddy to you for much of it.

Some of us had it tough but were fortunate enough to make good with the help of others. My upbringing was hard but some had it much harder than me. OG is from Yorkshire and this film clip is testimony to how things were back then when he was a lad:


See! You don't even know the meaning of tough when compared to the folks on the other side of the Pennines.:)

Tom
And this is even worse! You really don't know what you're talking about - you just spew your insulting rubbish and try to believe that makes you a good, caring man. What do you actually do in this world that makes a real difference?
 
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