Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Give up wriggling OG. You know full well the point I am making. It has nothing to do with free speech.
You are actually telling me you are incapable of criticising poor behaviour if its from a remainer. I don't believe you.

You are clearly too far gone to understand plain English any more, and simply see things to suit yourself, utterly disconnected from reality.
Whatever you believe is your prerogative, of no interest as far as I am concerned think what nonsense you will.

 

[oldgroaner]

That's justifying being two faced OG. You either agree with Tom or do not. For goodness sake you are straight enough with Peter and myself and would without doubt jump onto the disagree emoji if either of us made such statements. I had you better than that.
And yes, It has an awful lot to do with me. Had Peterl or Tillson or anybody else labelled leaver or remainer a racist or idiot I,d say it was uncalled for. Your refusal to condemn it supports it. And you know it and its exactly why it has continued.
Dual standards OG. You surprise me.
You have jumped straight to aid of Tom over Mobiot but completely ignored his appalling posts, not because you believe in right and wrong but because Tom is a remainer.

Once again you didn't read my post I didn't come out in support of Tom did I?
Actually I jumped on you for making a personal atttack on Monbiot because you didn't have an answer to his accusations except to resort to attacking him.

 

[Zlatan]

You like this then

Clearly, the imbecilic 'Brexidiots' who insist on spouting their fascist bile in their efforts to discredit the anti-'Brexit' lobby are beyond redemption.

History informs us how fascists behave and the godless scum bereft of empathy for their fellow man are acting true to type in this thread.

You can not give it a dislike can you. You can not condemn it. That definitely makes you bedfellows.

I attacked Monbiot's hypocrisy, I,m seeing it in you now.

 

[oldgroaner]

Give up wriggling OG. You know full well the point I am making. It has nothing to do with free speech.
You are actually telling me you are incapable of criticising poor behaviour if its from a remainer. I don't believe you.

This post was left un rated by you.

Quote
Clearly, the imbecilic 'Brexidiots' who insist on spouting their fascist bile in their efforts to discredit the anti-'Brexit' lobby are beyond redemption.

History informs us how fascists behave and the godless scum bereft of empathy for their fellow man are acting true to type in this thread.
End quote

Now look back and examine the replies and ratings you have given to Peterl and myself ( and,Tillson) over the thread ???
Then tell.me you know difference between right and wrong and that you are objective.
You are saying negative on both counts.?
Like I said, I thought you were one of good guys, even when we disagree. I must be wrong .

I told you I am not interested in these squabbles of yours with Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

You like this then

Clearly, the imbecilic 'Brexidiots' who insist on spouting their fascist bile in their efforts to discredit the anti-'Brexit' lobby are beyond redemption.

History informs us how fascists behave and the godless scum bereft of empathy for their fellow man are acting true to type in this thread.

You can not give it a dislike can you. You can not condemn it. That definitely makes you bedfellows.

For goodness sake get back on topic this is repetitive which 'is why I didn't get involved in the first place.
Take it up with Tom

 

[Zlatan]

I told you I am not interested in these squabbles of yours with Tom

That is a get out and you know it.
And you should be, because its exactly why many stopped posting on here.

 

[Zlatan]

Sorry OG, I think your inability to criticise poor behaviour undermines point of thread and any desire to discuus with you.You only pretend its about right and wrong for our country. You either cant recognise poor behaviour or criticise it when you do, so what's the point. Yet you continually criticise it in some. Good night OG.

 

[oldgroaner]

You like this then

Clearly, the imbecilic 'Brexidiots' who insist on spouting their fascist bile in their efforts to discredit the anti-'Brexit' lobby are beyond redemption.

History informs us how fascists behave and the godless scum bereft of empathy for their fellow man are acting true to type in this thread.

You can not give it a dislike can you. You can not condemn it. That definitely makes you bedfellows.

I attacked Monbiot's hypocrisy, I,m seeing it in you now.

You attacked Monbiot not the Video, which is your usual method i took issue with the fact that you were evading the points he made that's all
You wrote this
"
I,m assuming that's the same George Monbiot who lives off his rental of inherited properties. ( his book sales wouldn't support him) and the same one who had a completely private education paid for by his two CONSERVATIVE mp parents...
Perhaps not but I suspect its the same one..
Its bordering on childish Tom...at best amateurish propoganda..you,ve bought into it. Tory spin doctors will be quaking when they watch that..and you wonder why Labour have not had power much in last 50 years. Watching that video , even if you agree with points it makes, says don't vote labour. Its not Blue Planet and David Attenborough is it...
They portray all the tories as bumbling idiots but produce a video made by worse. If I were you I,d stop spreading it around.
Monbiot is hardly any better than Bono and company or the last champagne socialist you promoted."
I responded
What had all that tripe you offered to do with the point he was making?
more ranting off topic attacks on the messenger.
Standard Tory reaction.
Then to make matters worse you wrote this
"
He labelled some tory a paedophile who turned out to be one of his dad's mates, took him to court and proved Monbiot had made entire episode up ...cost him £25k in damages..
Tried reading one of his books, was worse than his video...
Its just so ironic Tom screams propoganda all time and peddles it more than anybody."

And I responded
"Is your pet Hobby indulging in the very thing you criticise others for doing?
You've gone completely over the top attacking this man because he says things you don't agree with.
If he was pro Brexit you would laud him to the skies wouldn't you?

You failed to even mention the accusations Monbiot made in the video as you were too busy insulting him the very thing you criticise Tom for.

Tell me what has any of that to do with Tom's contributions? apart from you patching them together?

You are losing the plot again

 

[oldgroaner]

Sorry OG, I think your inability to criticise poor behaviour undermines point of thread and any desire to discuus with you.You only pretend its about right and wrong for our country. You either cant recognise poor behaviour or criticise it when you do, so what's the point. Yet you continually criticise it in some. Good night OG.

You are becoming wierder every day, you are not the arbiter of other people's attitudes and behaviour.
In fact if you read the attack you made on George Monbiot because you didn't like his contentions then it is you that is guilty of poor behaviour
For some reason you seem to be blind to the fact.

Good night to you and try to wake up more sensible tomorrow.

 

[PeterL]

Not you as well? Tom and I are not "Bedfellows" and never have been, we are completely independent.
This is interesting
"At this moment in time you have the comfort of reflection on the status-quo whereas we have only wishful thinking. Wonderful thing, wishful thinking and I would offer that for some people that is all they have - you can only offer more of the same"

How do you balance that against your previous statement
"This is silly stuff OG. Those of us pro-Brexit are from being as blinkered as you suggest and will argue valid points from both sides.

Hmm so "Wishful thinking" counts as "Valid points" even though there is no evidence whatsover in favour of a succesful outcome compared with " the comfort of looking back on the Status Quo"

In other words you Gambled with the Future of the Nation on the basis of Wishful Thinking?

Yet again, you pick and choose, moving between posts and rarely answer or question the actual post made. By definition you have the Status-Quo yet, rarely do you offer anything good from it that we can get our teeth into. This is like playing tennis with the objective of seeing how long we can keep the ball going backwards and forwards. Quite how I haven't managed an ace escapes me at the moment - should be easy enough, maybe tomorrow!

 

[oldgroaner]

That is a get out and you know it.
And you should be, because its exactly why many stopped posting on here.

You seem to be getting your words mixed up "and you should be" What?

 

[oldgroaner]

Yet again, you pick and choose, moving between posts and rarely answer or question the actual post made. By definition you have the Status-Quo yet, rarely do you offer anything good from it that we can get our teeth into. This is like playing tennis with the objective of seeing how long we can keep the ball going backwards and forwards. Quite how I haven't managed an ace escapes me at the moment - should be easy enough, maybe tomorrow!

More evasion as usual and all because i asked you to define these "opportunities" ans in answer what was good about the status Quo was that it wasn't particularly good, but compared to Brexit it wasn't immediately dangerous.
So once again, what are these "opportunities" other than an "opportunity" for wishful thinking?

 

[Kudoscycles]

It appears that May is about to offer more cash to the EU to move negotiations on. I cannot believe that anyone in the UK wants that,either Leaver or Remainer.
We should walk away and let the EU stew for a while,threatening to give them nothing,the EU is clearly financially bust and needs what little money we have already offered.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

We should walk away and let the EU stew for a while

that may be difficult because we are more pressed for time than they are.
Also, until our offer includes honouring our share of the RAL, I don't think the EU is going to be interested.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Express
"

A series of slim-majority victories enabled the Government to quell a rebellion that had been threatening to upset Theresa May’s Brexit plans.

Labour's bid to change the Bill to make it harder for ministers after Brexit to alter EU-based employment, equality, and health and safety rights, and consumer and environmental standards, was defeated by 299 votes to 311, Government majority 12.

A bid by MPs to make ministers spell out technical provisions of existing EU law that could be changed by processes which undergo less scrutiny than full Parliamentary Bills was defeated by 311 votes to 295, majority 16.

The Government later defeated, by 313 vote to 295, majority 18, a Green Party-led call to transfer an EU protocol into UK law so animals would continue to be recognised as conscious beings in the UK after Brexit.!

The Brexit Voters are going to be very sorry sooner than later when their employment, equality, and health and safety rights consumer standards and environmental standards go out of the window

Now you right wingers Justify what your Government has done.
What kind of Govenment wants the power to reduce the rights of the people?
There's a word for them isn't there
Oppressive
Zlatan asserted that the EU was a "Paper Tiger" that didn't prevent abuse in this country.
Yesterday he was proved very wrong indeed.
The EU prevented the UK Government Abusing and reducing your rights.
Yesterday they "Took back Control"
And proved that Power Corrupts, and absolute power corrupts Conservative Governments absolutely as you were warned on here it would.
Which rights are you happy to sacrifice in the Sacred Cause of Brexit?
Was this one of "opportunities" peterL was on about? an opportunity to suffer a degraded life style?

 

[oldgroaner]

It appears that May is about to offer more cash to the EU to move negotiations on. I cannot believe that anyone in the UK wants that,either Leaver or Remainer.
We should walk away and let the EU stew for a while,threatening to give them nothing,the EU is clearly financially bust and needs what little money we have already offered.
KudosDave

This simply won't work, will it?
Are you really saying the the EU would go bust without the Pittance (by comparison with the EU budget) that we are being asked to cough up?
All they have to compesate for that is cut back on some projects for a while.

 

[oldtom]

I am firmly on the side of Brexit and the opportunity it presents us.

You continue to regurgitate the major lie about 'Brexit'.

In spite of the long-standing invitation to all 'Brexidiots' to explain exactly how, when and where will the people of the UK be better off outside of the EU, neither you nor any of the other brainwashed fools has come up with one good reason

To pontificate about there being great opportunities is to simply repeat the rhetoric and ignore reality but that seems to be a common trait among all those stupid enough to have fallen for a pack of lies in the first place and now cannot admit they made a mistake.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Are you really saying the the EU would go bust without the Pittance (by comparison with the EU budget) that we are being asked to cough up?
All they have to compesate for that is cut back on some projects for a while.

they don't even have to do that, they just put our £11 billions a year manque a gagner on to the pile of RAL which is at £250 billions currently.
Until everyone is clear on where we stand with regard to our liabilities, the hard brexiters will continue to promise big gains post brexit, little is made about their the caveat in small prints 'if the future government adopts the right policies'. Would our parliament bring these hard brexiters to the HOP and get them to explain what their 'right policies' are?

 

[oldtom]

manque a gagner

My understanding of the French language is very limited bu when I get stuck, my French D-I-L helps me out. That cute expression is a new one on me although others may have encountered it.

Gotta love the internet!

Tom

 

[PeterL]

The Brexit Voters are going to be very sorry sooner than later when their employment, equality, and health and safety rights consumer standards and environmental standards go out of the window

Now you right wingers Justify what your Government has done.
What kind of Govenment wants the power to reduce the rights of the people?
There's a word for them isn't there
Oppressive
Zlatan asserted that the EU was a "Paper Tiger" that didn't prevent abuse in this country.
Yesterday he was proved very wrong indeed.
The EU prevented the UK Government Abusing and reducing your rights.
Yesterday they "Took back Control"
And proved that Power Corrupts, and absolute power corrupts Conservative Governments absolutely as you were warned on here it would.
Which rights are you happy to sacrifice in the Sacred Cause of Brexit?
Was this one of "opportunities" peterL was on about? an opportunity to suffer a degraded life style?
Oppressive

Rubbish and a distortion of the facts, as usual. The whole point of this bill is to stop the stupidity of attempting to discuss each and every law. Instead we simply bring everything into UK Law and then discuss. It is certainly not about reducing the rights and the protection of us all.