Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

there is no perfect answer to a complex issue like brexit.
We will have to trust our guts feeling.

 

[oldtom]

We are approaching Remembrance Day once again and no doubt someone from the royal gang will step up and lay a wreath at the Cenotaph.

This infographic describes perfectly the way I feel about the annual act of hypocrisy by the royals:



Tom

 

[oldtom]

Robert Tressell, the adopted name of a very intuitive Irishman, wrote this piece about capitalism during his short life and sadly, the people responsible for Tressell's complaint still exist. In the UK, they are called tories, the elite or the establishment but by whatever name you know them, they are an accursed abomination upon the earth.

This infographic illustrates exactly the entire philosophy and ambition of the tory moral compass:



Tom

 

[tommie]

..are you on strong meds these days tomas?

and please remember those who gave of their lives to ensure you had the freedom to become a nasty ole acid-filled git.

 

[oldtom]

I hope none of the contributors to this thread still believes that the BBC is full of left-wing loonies; this little montage is simply a tiny example of the kind of tory scum populating the tory propaganda arm on television:



Know your enemy!........although for some, so beautifully brainwashed by the tory system in our monarchical oligarchy, they will believe everything with which they are presented by these purveyors of lies and false statistics.

Tom

 

[Steb]

..are you on strong meds these days tomas?

and please remember those who gave of their lives to ensure you had the freedom to become a nasty ole acid-filled git.

not a Wilfred Owen fan I take it? how little you know about war

 

[Zlatan]

And there I was thinking this thread was about Brexit.

 

[Steb]

And there I was thinking this thread was about Brexit.

well, look on the bright side, at least you were thinking

 

[Zlatan]

well, look on the bright side, at least you were thinking

Thanks Steb...another compliment, and a " like" from OG...on same day. What is going on...just waiting for an agree from Tom and I,ll have the set...might be waiting for a while tho...and on reflection do I really want an agree from Tom ??
No, things are never that bad.

 

[Steb]

Thanks Steb...another compliment...What is world coming to.

but not about Wilfred Owen? how deep is that cultural void at the heart of brexit?

 

[Zlatan]

but not about Wilfred Owen? how deep is that cultural void at the heart of brexit?

You are looking too deep Steb and you are somewhat mixed up. Please explain how EU and,UK will somehow be less , or more, morally bankrupt post Brexit ? Western Civilisation will not blink, falter or change. We,ve seen immoral behaviour for centuries,what makes you think EU , or us remaining in EU, could ever change that.
The EU represents just as strongly all the ills you put at the feet of our establishment. Its full of corruption, racism, crime and tax fraud. Leave or stay will never change that.
Infact I suspect it could be a step away from corruption. ( leaving that is)

 

[Steb]

You are looking too deep Steb and you are somewhat mixed up. Please explain how EU and,UK will somehow be less morally bankrupt post Brexit ? Western Civilisation will not blink, falter or change. We,ve seen immoral behaviour for centuries,what makes you think EU , or us remaining in EU, could ever change that.

now you're making me feel genuine pity. so, insisting that we have hit the absolute bottom of the trough and cannot possibly become any more depraved than we have always been makes you feel safe about brexit? ethics are fundamentally principles that govern a person's behaviour, not a state's. as the local representative for brexit I'd say your ethics don't bode well.

 

[anotherkiwi]

And Tony Ben's ???
" When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious that what they had in mind was not democratic. I mean, in Britain you vote for the government and therefore the government has to listen to you, and if you don’t like it you can change it. But in Europe all the key positions are appointed, not elected – the Commission, for example. All appointed, not one of them elected. "

You are missing my point. I am saying your premise that Brexit is somehow morally wrong at its heart is flawed, because leaving or staying will not affect our moral, social ,or racial situation.
The EU whilst were in it had no effect so how can leaving affect anything ?

Maybe Monsieur Ben should have read what the commission actually does? I mean after all you know, don't you? https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-commission_en

All the voting is done in the parliament by the MEPs you elected like toad face er sorry Farage. Now there is an MEP who is earning his keep proposing all those useful measures to better the lives of the UK people he is there to represent. 7,957 euros a month plus 4,299 expenses plus 4,243 travel plus 304 euros for each day of presence at sessions of parliament for food an board.

You are paying his wages, are you getting your moneys worth?

 

[oldgroaner]

not a Wilfred Owen fan I take it? how little you know about war

I see you got a "disagree" from the usual sources
I wonder why?

 

[oldgroaner]

..are you on strong meds these days tomas?

and please remember those who gave of their lives to ensure you had the freedom to become a nasty ole acid-filled git.

Do explain the connection you have made between entirely disconnected events, as one could equally argue that the same sacrifice enabled right wing nutters with terrible attitudes make their points too.
Have a little respect for them rather than imagine they did what they did for reasons you know nothing about, and most likely care even less.

 

[oldgroaner]

You are looking too deep Steb and you are somewhat mixed up. Please explain how EU and,UK will somehow be less , or more, morally bankrupt post Brexit ? Western Civilisation will not blink, falter or change. We,ve seen immoral behaviour for centuries,what makes you think EU , or us remaining in EU, could ever change that.
The EU represents just as strongly all the ills you put at the feet of our establishment. Its full of corruption, racism, crime and tax fraud. Leave or stay will never change that.
Infact I suspect it could be a step away from corruption. ( leaving that is)

perhaps this is a clue
"
Winston Churchill, a former army officer, war reporter and British Prime Minister
(1940-45 and 1951-55), was one of the first to call for the creation of a
‘United States of Europe’. Following the Second World War, he was convinced
that only a united Europe could guarantee peace. His aim was to eliminate the
European ills of nationalism and war-mongering once and for all.
He formulated his conclusions drawn from the lessons of history in his famous
‘Speech to the academic youth’ held at the University of Zurich in 1946: “There is
a remedy which ... would in a few years make all Europe ... free and ... happy.
It is to re-create the European family, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it
with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom.
We must build a kind of United States of Europe.”

It has, until fools have started to interfere.
And as to your notion we are leaving corruption behind, we are taking the worst perpetrators with us, and even worse giving them absolute power to engage in their social Malevolence.
All on the basis of a Wager.

At this point you will no doubt say, we can always vote them out. in theory yes, but the ability of the political animals and press to d
ivert the public attention and make it do what they want throws that notion out of the window.
Governments that make matters worse for the Country and the Nation seem to be the only ones the public will vote for en masse, as the powers of persuasion overcome good sense.
Brexit being the Prime example.

 

[oldgroaner]

there is no perfect answer to a complex issue like brexit.
We will have to trust our guts feeling.

No Woosh we who voted for remain are being forced to suffer the "Gut" feelings of a faction we utterly disagree with.
They have already proved utterly untrustworthy, and divided the nation, while benefiitting only the Tax evading rich, which is why so much effort and propaganda went into "guiding" public opinion against the EU.
And who will pay for this folly?
Let me give you a clue...look in a mirror.

 

[oldgroaner]

Maybe Monsieur Ben should have read what the commission actually does? I mean after all you know, don't you? https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-commission_en

All the voting is done in the parliament by the MEPs you elected like toad face er sorry Farage. Now there is an MEP who is earning his keep proposing all those useful measures to better the lives of the UK people he is there to represent. 7,957 euros a month plus 4,299 expenses plus 4,243 travel plus 304 euros for each day of presence at sessions of parliament for food an board.

You are paying his wages, are you getting your moneys worth?

NO

 

[Woosh]

Let me give you a clue...look in a mirror.

I didn't vote for brexit but I accepted the result, possibly because it does not matter to me as much as it does you and many million others.
Remainers tend to talk about economic consequences of brexit, and because brexit has not happened, that argument went nowhere, before the vote, after the vote, now and during any transitional period. I have made this point before, remainers have not made any other persuasive arguments why brexit should not happen.
All the current anti-brexit show is done by Brussels, do you expect the Eurocrates to win the brexiters over?

 

[PeterL]

perhaps this is a clue
"
Winston Churchill, a former army officer, war reporter and British Prime Minister
(1940-45 and 1951-55), was one of the first to call for the creation of a
‘United States of Europe’. Following the Second World War, he was convinced
that only a united Europe could guarantee peace. His aim was to eliminate the
European ills of nationalism and war-mongering once and for all.
He formulated his conclusions drawn from the lessons of history in his famous
‘Speech to the academic youth’ held at the University of Zurich in 1946: “There is
a remedy which ... would in a few years make all Europe ... free and ... happy.
It is to re-create the European family, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it
with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom.
We must build a kind of United States of Europe.”

It has, until fools have started to interfere.
And as to your notion we are leaving corruption behind, we are taking the worst perpetrators with us, and even worse giving them absolute power to engage in their social Malevolence.
All on the basis of a Wager.

At this point you will no doubt say, we can always vote them out. in theory yes, but the ability of the political animals and press to d
ivert the public attention and make it do what they want throws that notion out of the window.
Governments that make matters worse for the Country and the Nation seem to be the only ones the public will vote for en masse, as the powers of persuasion overcome good sense.
Brexit being the Prime example.

He also said but, not for GB.