Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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Statistics and damn lies. But, I suspect your guess is as good as anyone else's - you really think we'd rush out to join, enmass?
I can move freely between the UK and France, I have never given much thought to the question. There is something in the language that makes you think and react differently when you flip the language.
 

PeterL

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Of course I knew and accept that, but it doesn't alter the very long term economic advantage it gave us, which was my point as the post made very clear.

How would you like me to make the point? Tiptoe around it like the following to satisfy delicate sensitivities:

"We failed to pay for the resources and labour we received that gave us considerable economic advantage".

A bit far from the truth isn't it, even by Victorian standards? It seems to me that, like so many Brexiters, you want to avoid facts that don't suit and instead deliberately misconstrue any cogent argument for remaining in the EU.

I'm not a rabid fan of the EU, recognising all it's many faults and reluctance to change for the better. I just think it the better and certainly safer of the two options, with the possible eventual prize of being unified as a major world power able to protect itself economically and militarily in a future much more dangerous world.
.
Just a wee bit silly now, they didn't have supermarkets in those days. You just went around the place(s) and helped yourself. Just to take this a little further. So, could everyone else, we were just that little bit better at it than the rest of Europe combined. Perhaps, we could be again - why not!
 

PeterL

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I can move freely between the UK and France, I have never given much thought to the question. There is something in the language that makes you think and react differently when you flip the language.
One of the beauties (limitations) of English is the ability to have more than one meaning with a sentence - it explains much of what goes on, here and indeed in other places. Can be good fun.
 
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PeterL

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By the way the expression "Wasting it all on the Europeans" puzzled me.
Would that be the less than we should have paid membership fees after the Rebate?
No, a little deeper than that. If, your scenario should play out - then if we are on our own when we run out of money, I suspect we would make an easier meal for someone than if we were a part of a failed EU?
 
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PeterL

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Rewrite it? care to elaborate?

You suspect wrong, but that doesn't mean we want to leave Europe now to live in a country run by the same sort of people who took over Europe then, though the conservative party did want to surrender to Hitler in 1940 remember?
I do doubt that the whole Conservative Party wanted to surrender, I guess some could claim that Chamberlain was a secret Labour Party member in much the same way TB was accused of such, more recently?
 

oldgroaner

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Just a wee bit silly now, they didn't have supermarkets in those days. You just went around the place(s) and helped yourself. Just to take this a little further. So, could everyone else, we were just that little bit better at it than the rest of Europe combined. Perhaps, we could be again - why not!
Actually this fit in rather well with the Altruistic Nature of my Forbears, Clan Bell of Border Riever Fame, their speciality was keeping an eye out for cattle that heartless owners had left out to brave the weather and collecting them so they could be suitably housed by a more conscientious and reliable owner.
Amazing that such a noble ambition created the angst that it tended to do!

People for some strange reason felt that my ancestors were not someone you would want to run into on a dark night.
Indeed even at noon on a Brilliantly sunny day either.

When the uncharitable English put paid to this activity, smuggling for a time whiled away those days of enforced idleness, possibly Brexit will bring in a new golden age in this public Spirited pursuit?
 

oldgroaner

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I do doubt that the whole Conservative Party wanted to surrender, I guess some could claim that Chamberlain was a secret Labour Party member in much the same way TB was accused of such, more recently?
If you look back through the thread I have posted not merely documentary evidence to prove which individuals were involved, but also a front page from the Daily Mail lauding the Nazi Blackshirts.
This is not myth, but recorded history, as it the fact that Churchill had to turn to the Labour Party for support to prevent them surrendering.
Look it up for yourself, the evidence is all there,

Or how about this one from the Daily Express


The March 24, 1933 issue of The Daily Express of London (shown above) described how Jewish leaders, in combination with powerful international Jewish financial interests, had launched a boycott of Germany for the express purpose of crippling her already precarious economy in the hope of bringing down the new Hitler regime. It was only then that Germany struck back in response.

Thus, if truth be told, it was the worldwide Jewish Khazar leadership – not the Third Reich – that effectively fired the first shot in the Second World War. Prominent New York attorney Samuel Untermyer (above right) was one of the leading agitators in the war against Germany, describing the Jewish campaign as nothing less than a “holy war.”

So much for their patriotism, this is the press regime supporting Conservatism, do you imagine they are reformed?
 
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PeterL

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If you look back through the thread I have posted not merely documentary evidence to prove which individuals were involved, but also a front page from the Daily Mail lauding the Nazi Blackshirts.
This is not myth, but recorded history, as it the fact that Churchill had to turn to the Labour Party for support to prevent them surrendering.
Look it up for yourself, the evidence is all there,

Or how about this one from the Daily Express


The March 24, 1933 issue of The Daily Express of London (shown above) described how Jewish leaders, in combination with powerful international Jewish financial interests, had launched a boycott of Germany for the express purpose of crippling her already precarious economy in the hope of bringing down the new Hitler regime. It was only then that Germany struck back in response.

Thus, if truth be told, it was the worldwide Jewish Khazar leadership – not the Third Reich – that effectively fired the first shot in the Second World War. Prominent New York attorney Samuel Untermyer (above right) was one of the leading agitators in the war against Germany, describing the Jewish campaign as nothing less than a “holy war.”

So much for their patriotism, this is the press regime supporting Conservatism, do you imagine they are reformed?
OG - you have educated me, that must be two things at least today. As even you pointed out earlier, you would be prepared to join a United Europe on the basis that they had changed their spots. I therefore continue to live in hope that so too have the Conservatives, well enough of them and certainly far more than that other lot. PC prevents me from admitting anything else tonight!
 
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PeterL

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Actually this fit in rather well with the Altruistic Nature of my Forbears, Clan Bell of Border Riever Fame, their speciality was keeping an eye out for cattle that heartless owners had left out to brave the weather and collecting them so they could be suitably housed by a more conscientious and reliable owner.
Amazing that such a noble ambition created the angst that it tended to do!

People for some strange reason felt that my ancestors were not someone you would want to run into on a dark night.
Indeed even at noon on a Brilliantly sunny day either.

When the uncharitable English put paid to this activity, smuggling for a time whiled away those days of enforced idleness, possibly Brexit will bring in a new golden age in this public Spirited pursuit?
Good to see such a level of understanding on the Forum - many a dark secret I'm sure.
 
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oldgroaner

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OG - you have educated me, that must be two things at least today. As even you pointed out earlier, you would be prepared to join a United Europe on the basis that they had changed their spots. I therefore continue to live in hope that so too have the Conservatives, well enough of them and certainly far more than that other lot. PC prevents me from admitting anything else tonight!
Well done you but as to reforming Good old Boris needs some help with that methinks
"
Johnson's 'piccaninnies' apology
Wednesday 23 January 2008 01.13 GMTFirst published on Wednesday 23 January 2008 01.13 GMT

Boris Johnson has apologised for referring to black people as "piccaninnies" and talking about "watermelon smiles".
During a debate for the London mayoral contest on Monday, the Conservative candidate said he was "sad" that people had been offended but insisted the words had been taken out of context.

In a column published in the Daily Telegraph six years ago, Johnson mocked Tony Blair's globetrotting: "What a relief it must be for Blair to get out of England. It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies," he wrote. It also mentioned "watermelon smiles".

Now tell me, how can I view such a buffoon?
He headed the charge for Brexit , in the hope of gaining the Tory leadership, then fled the field shocked by Victory and fearing he would be held responsible and have to make a Lead Airship Fly?

Now he is in there with a chance to remove the Zombie Apocalypse.
Will you really vote for a Party that has a leader that Makes stupidity look like a career necessity to be a Tory Politician?

Or Choose between Jacob Grease Smug, and that laughing Hyena, Davis
Or perhaps the Grey Man Hammond or Gollum if his wife permits?
Spoilt for choice? good grief you are abolutely ruined!

But don't imagine I am impressed with the other lot either
There isn't an Aneurin Bevan among them. one of his quotes describes Rees Smug well
"Reactionary: a man walking backwards with his face to the future."
 
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oldgroaner

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OG - you have educated me, that must be two things at least today. As even you pointed out earlier, you would be prepared to join a United Europe on the basis that they had changed their spots. I therefore continue to live in hope that so too have the Conservatives, well enough of them and certainly far more than that other lot. PC prevents me from admitting anything else tonight!
I would like to correct that wrong impression if I may.
I would be prepared to join a United States of Europe on the basis that WE had changed our spots.

Brexit rudely shattered that illusion, the only thing we have learned from History is we don't unless the lesson is painful.

Not to worry I have every confidence that Brexit in the hands of the Toxic Conservative Government will provide an enema coated in oven cleaner just where it will have the maximum effect.

That will bring our spots off and I don't mean maybe.
More effective indeed than the legendary fate of being "Rogered with a Rag Man's Rusty Trumpet."
 

flecc

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Brexit rudely shattered that illusion, the only thing we have learned from History is we don't unless the lesson is painful.
I doubt any country ever learns from history. That is why we have the EU, as a defence against the otherwise probability of WW3 and a fourth Reich.

The previous great war is always the war to end all wars.
.
 
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oldgroaner

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I doubt any country ever learns from history. That is why we have the EU, as a defence against the otherwise probability of WW3 and a fourth Reich.

The previous great war is always the war to end all wars.
.
What is appalling is that propaganda that in every way uses the format and message of suspicion and hate pioneered in the 1930's , for what are in fact identical reasons, still resonates with people of a level of education that theoretically should make them less vulnerable.

Alas Wisdom cannot be taught, it has to be acquired on an individual basis, and that is too rare to alter the course of events, as human affairs are determined by the manipulation of mass illusion.

How ironic that we are all only a few clicks away from benefiting from documentary evidence that either proves or disproves the information being directed at us.
Yet few bother to take the time to do so.
 
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PeterL

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Or Choose between Jacob Grease Smug, and that laughing Hyena, Davis
Or perhaps the Grey Man Hammond or Gollum if his wife permits?
Spoilt for choice? good grief you are abolutely ruined!

OG - you can only go so far I enjoy at least three of those named!
 

PeterL

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[QUOTE="oldgroaner, post: 396028, member: 15142"How ironic that we are all only a few clicks away from benefiting from documentary evidence that either proves or disproves the information being directed at us.
Yet few bother to take the time to do so.[/QUOTE]

The problem is sorting out Truth from Lie but you probably correctly summed this up when using the word 'Experience' How on earth could the so-called future fall for the 'promises' made last time around?
 

Woosh

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The problem is sorting out Truth from Lie
people can sort out truth from lie but a few are too lazy to do so. They prefer placing their trust in those promising the most although we all know the kind of probability of something appearing too good.
 
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oldgroaner

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Or Choose between Jacob Grease Smug, and that laughing Hyena, Davis
Or perhaps the Grey Man Hammond or Gollum if his wife permits?
Spoilt for choice? good grief you are abolutely ruined!

OG - you can only go so far I enjoy at least three of those named!
Enjoy? Do explain!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 

PeterL

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Enjoy? Do explain!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
It might seem strange to you OG but I do enjoy people, I do realise so do you, and I like to think about the company I would enjoy over dinner. Don't reaaly care too much about tge politics, thst's just another game peopld play
 

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