Bosch bearings

[flecc]

Bottom brackets are and always have been classed as consumables. All bearings have a finite life and bottom brackets do get hammered.

The doesn't necessarily apply when the bottom bracket is a part of an integrated motor unit though, the BB then is often a complex multi part assembly since the chainwheels and cranks have to operate independently on such units. These are not constrained by standard frame shell sizes so there's no excuse to design for inadequate life.

The Panasonic unit warranty for example is two years for the entire unit. They are a major bicycle manufacturer too so may well follow convention on the normal bikes, but clearly not the same on the crank drive unit.
.

 

[Artstu]

I have not followed this entire thread but would assume that Bosch do not warrant consumables.

Bottom brackets are and always have been classed as consumables. All bearings have a finite life and bottom brackets do get hammered.

There's a two year warranty on unmodified Bosch units. A bearing failure is covered, because the unit isn't serviceable, Bosch do not supply any internal parts.

My bike is used amongst other things for daily commuting. To leave it for days at a dealer is no use to me. If I can quickly repair myself, this would be my option.

Return to Bosch I'm lead to believe can be around 4 weeks,

 

[trex]

the norm seems that warranty does not cover wear and tear.

The bottom bracket spindle is not faulty, the motor casing is not faulty, the ball bearings are worn due to mileage.

sample T&Cs, extract from:
http://www.shop.flidistribution.co.uk/k/policies#9
2. The warranties do not apply to any defect in the goods arising from fair wear and tear, willful damage, accident, negligence by you or any third party, use otherwise than in accordance with its intended use, failure to follow the manufacturer's or Shopatron Supplier's instructions, or any alteration or repair carried out without the Shopatron Supplier's prior written approval.

 

[Artstu]

A Bosch motor is an exception to that, and would be covered by warranty if unmodified.

 

[trex]

you have to return the unit to a Bosch service centre but they may make a charge for replacing the bearings though.

 

[Artstu]

you have to return the unit to a Bosch service centre but they may make a charge for replacing the bearings though.

I didn't know that. I wonder what the cost is anyone?

 

[trex]

correction:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bosch-crank-drive-whining-help-please.16701/

it seems that the situation may be more common than I imagine.
A few members think Bosch will replace the motor FOC.

 

[SRS]

The doesn't necessarily apply when the bottom bracket is a part of an integrated motor unit though, the BB then is often a complex multi part assembly since the chainwheels and cranks have to operate independently on such units. These are not constrained by standard frame shell sizes so there's no excuse to design for inadequate life.
.

The question might then be, what is the design life? Surely it must be 10's of thousands of miles?

 

[SRS]

There's a two year warranty on unmodified Bosch units. A bearing failure is covered, because the unit isn't serviceable, Bosch do not supply any internal parts.



Return to Bosch I'm lead to believe can be around 4 weeks,

Bosch are not playing the game here. Who wants to wait 4 weeks for a bearing replacement.

It might be acceptable if you are using the bike for weekend fun but not for a daily commuter. It says to me that Bosch think that these bikes are purchased for toys.

My camper is a German conversion, I would expect to have it repaired in the UK should the need arise.

Surely that is what the UK dealers have been trained for.

 

[Artstu]

The question might then be, what is the design life? Surely it must be 10's of thousands of miles?

4,000 miles in my case. the new Bosch motor has a bearing twice the size of the one that has worn out in my motor.

 

[EddiePJ]

Surely that is what the UK dealers have been trained for.

You need to think yourselves lucky. The BH has got to go back to Spain to be repaired as BH UK aren't competent enough to do it! Impressed I'm not.

Not for the first time, I am without use of the bike, and I'm sure that it will be far from the last time as well.
I need to have a sell up and replace it pretty smartish.

 

[flecc]

The question might then be, what is the design life? Surely it must be 10's of thousands of miles?

It certainly should be. Panasonic have got their integral BB bearings right from the outset, they never fail and are still in use on units up to 12 years old.

From what Arstu says, Bosch have greatly increased the bearing size to correct the problem. In my view that's an admission of a design error so those that fail should be replaced totally free of charge.
.

 

[SRS]

Eddie, I bet you wish you could turn back the clock regarding your decision to go with BH.
I think its about time they returned your money.

Flecc, I hope Arstu's experience stems from some Friday afternoon bearing production and not a design error.
Lets not think about their decision to increase bearing size on the later version.

 

[Artstu]

Lets not think about their decision to increase bearing size on the later version.

Brushing it under the carpet and burying your head in the sand isn't helping me though.
Here's the one that has worn out

The new motor may have these fitted

However it's actually the bearing on the other end of the shaft that is proving difficult to source.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Brushing it under the carpet and burying your head in the sand isn't helping me though.
Here's the one that has worn out

The new motor may have these fitted

However it's actually the bearing on the other end of the shaft that is proving difficult to source.

but has the one you're struggling to find actually worn out or are you just replacing it whilst the drive is apart?

 

[Artstu]

but has the one you're struggling to find actually worn out or are you just replacing it whilst the drive is apart?

It has been worn by the effect of the tilting of the shaft.

 

[trex]

let's assume Bosch realized the problem in the old bearings and decided to improve the design by fitting a better, stronger version in the new motor.
I am curious to know what members think is right.

1) the old motor should be replaced FOC
2) the old motor should be replaced but you pay half price
3) the old bearings should be replaced FOC
4) the old bearings should be replaced but you pay a small charge

 

[Gubbins]

How many people have actually had this problem? Just because one unit has failed doesn't mean they all will,!

 

[flecc]

let's assume Bosch realized the problem in the old bearings and decided to improve the design by fitting a better, stronger version in the new motor.
I am curious to know what members think is right.

1) the old motor should be replaced FOC
2) the old motor should be replaced but you pay half price
3) the old bearings should be replaced FOC
4) the old bearings should be replaced but you pay a small charge

On that assumption, number 3.
.

 

[Artstu]

I've was speaking to the office yesterday - (I'm already on my way to EuroBike) and they have said they are trying to negotiate a super cheap deal, or even possibly get you a free replacement, despite the fact that Bosch won't officially cover your product because you've been using it in a modified state.

So I was about to go into a meeting with Bosch this week, and do my best to get you a free or greatly reduced drive, or we were considering other options once I'd spoken with Bosch about possibly just getting the drive serviced for you, or even swapping the whole bike as a good will gesture.

So as KTM, I am pretty proud of what we're doing in this case.

At this point I feel it is worth going back through the thread, some may have got the impression KTM are giving good service in this matter. However despite all that has been offered, I still have a broken bike with no help getting my bike repaired.

So Col can I ask do you still feel proud of KTM given that you have failed to honour any of the offers you've made?