Bosch bearings

[PzPhil]

Thanks for that. I wrote the lengthy post because I've seen more than one thread on here where the customer clearly has been denied his/her legal rights.

I note your situation was remedied by your dealer effectively putting things right by you by cannibalising another bike. Legally, it doesn't matter why the bike can't be fixed as you contract remains with the dealer, not the manufacturer or parts supplier.

If KTM backs their warranty from a central fund or via insurance, it shouldn't matter which dealer you take the bike to.

I also don't see why as a customer, you can't walk into a dealer and order the part to fit yourself, or to have fitted by a third party, just like I can at the parts counter of my car dealer...

 

[JohnCade]

If KTM backs their warranty from a central fund or via insurance, it shouldn't matter which dealer you take the bike to.

I also don't see why as a customer, you can't walk into a dealer and order the part to fit yourself, or to have fitted by a third party, just like I can at the parts counter of my car dealer...

If you read back up the thread you'll see that the bicycle trade doesn't do it that way, and seemingly these new fangled e bikes aren't going to change the way they've always done things. If they can help it.

 

[wissy]

i agree with you about being allowed easy access to parts (dealer or customer). The restrictions and barriers for these component parts are becoming so restrictive it seems that it will have a detrimental effect on an actual bike brand itself? With what seems like a clear growth in the supply if these expensive bikes there needs to be some serious consideration within the UK by bike manufacturers (not component manufacturers) to ensuring there is an integral system setup which is much better than exists at present. Also a revamp of the warranty system for pedelecs would be a good idea using input from both dealers and customers and such like. it needs to be looked and improvements made for sure. Whether these brands will see their warranties as simply a legal piece of paper rather than an opportunity to provide exceptional customer service other other brands remains to be seen. The opportunity is there for a brand such as KTM to take the lead and even use any such improvements as a usp. It would allow for them to set the benchmark for a proper and purposeful warranty system and a decent working dealer support network for all KTM bikes.

 

[PzPhil]

It would be a start if their dealer agreements contained a clause stating that a condition of being a dealer is that they will repair all bikes of that make, at their normal commercial rate, irrespective of original supplier.

If someone had sufficient time and funding, I'm sure it could be established that the restrictions and barriers for component parts are in fact illegal under EU consumer law...

 

[Gubbins]

I would imagine that the wear rate would actually be worse on a standard unit. The lateral loading from the high pedal input above the cut out speed would be much more detrimental than that from the motor.
It was only when the battery went flat that I noticed the play, when soft pedalling with the help of the motor there was no play noticeable to me, however when having to exert a very high force to drag a loaded 26 kg bike up a hill with a flat battery the play was very evident.
It is clear to me that the bearing which has worn out simply isn't up to the job. The bike has covered around 4,200 miles and has climbed in the region of 250,000 feet.
I do not believe that the increased assist speed has increased this rate of wear in any way.

This not up to the job bearing is going to be a serious problem for all Bosch users in the not too distant future.

Direct question... Would you buy another Bosch e-bike?

 

[PzPhil]

If you read back up the thread you'll see that the bicycle trade doesn't do it that way, and seemingly these new fangled e bikes aren't going to change the way they've always done things. If they can help it.

You could argue therefore that you may as well bypass the "trade" altogether, buy your bike mail order and fix it yourself with the help of expertise gleaned from the internet.

This is another barrier to ebikes going mainstream.

 

[Artstu]

Direct question... Would you buy another Bosch e-bike?

No chance. As Wissy says we still don't know anything about out of warranty Bosch repairs. Does anyone out there know the cost of returning an out of warranty faulty Bosch motor to Bosch for repair? the only option given that they won't sell you spares for the internal workings.

I will also never buy another KTM bike ever again, I will also advise anyone I meet on my bike not to touch the brand either.

 

[flecc]

Does anyone out there know the cost of returning an out of warranty faulty Bosch motor to Bosch for repair? the only option given that they won't sell you spares for the internal workings.

Bosch seem to have followed Panasonic's long established policy for their crank units in this respect. Their problem is that the Bosch units have suffered internal faults at a far higher rate than Panasonic, especially compared to Panasonic's later unit which has been close to 100% reliable after seven years on sale. Even the rare failure that has occurred under their two year warranty has been promptly met by the e-bike maker immediately replacing the Panasonic unit from stock.
.

 

[Gubbins]

No chance. As Wissy says we still don't know anything about out of warranty Bosch repairs. Does anyone out there know the cost of returning an out of warranty faulty Bosch motor to Bosch for repair? the only option given that they won't sell you spares for the internal workings.

I will also never buy another KTM bike ever again, I will also advise anyone I meet on my bike not to touch the brand either.

Well that's not beating about the bush! I must say I am really happy with the Scott, but am seriously concerned about future reliability of the Bosch bits. Having said that ilkley cycles is really trying to get into e-bikes and to be able to offer support, plus I rarely keep one for more than 2 years anyway .... There's always something new to tempt me.... I have done half the mileage that Artstu had done, so bit of life still in there yet.

 

[Croxden]

I have a Bosch Performance motor and so far at 3000 plus miles it seems to be OK. The Intuvia display on the other hand...

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

No chance. As Wissy says we still don't know anything about out of warranty Bosch repairs. Does anyone out there know the cost of returning an out of warranty faulty Bosch motor to Bosch for repair? the only option given that they won't sell you spares for the internal workings.

I will also never buy another KTM bike ever again, I will also advise anyone I meet on my bike not to touch the brand either.

I'm slightly confused by this attitude. I'd not normally respond to such a direct comment, but I really feel in this case I should just add a few points.

Firstly you're all worrying about Bosch repairs out of warranty, without actually contacting a dealer who would offer this service. Its not a complicated system, please stop worrying about things that aren't an issue, there will always be a dealer or someone who will help you if your bike is out of warranty.

Then on to your negative comments about KTM.

My first question would be, how you'd expect us to handle this case differently?

According to our records you bought your bike on eBay from a dealer, at a clearance price.

We have already done you a big favour by helping you deal with Madison to sort the minor problem with the Shimano Nexus hub that needed a bit of work.

In this new case you contacted us this week to say you had a bit of wobble. We've again dealt with you direct rather than send you back to the dealer in south wales. I've was speaking to the office yesterday - (I'm already on my way to EuroBike) and they have said they are trying to negotiate a super cheap deal, or even possibly get you a free replacement, despite the fact that Bosch won't officially cover your product because you've been using it in a modified state.

So I was about to go into a meeting with Bosch this week, and do my best to get you a free or greatly reduced drive, or we were considering other options once I'd spoken with Bosch about possibly just getting the drive serviced for you, or even swapping the whole bike as a good will gesture.

These are all things we've been discussing in our office in the few working hours since Bosch came back to us saying they wouldn't warranty it. As I understand it Tom has told you that worst case we'd offer as a good will gesture a new drive at our OEM cost.

So as KTM, I am pretty proud of what we're doing in this case. Certainly Shimano helped you out last time for us, and we're doing our best to help this time.

What would you expect us to do, to actually consider recommending the bike? Bearing in mind you've done over 4000 happy miles on it so far already. Is the problem KTM, or Bosch, or what?

Regards
Col.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

According to German pedelcs reliability of Bosch is better than Impulse. The issue is more that you cannot repair the motor. It is possible to get replacement motors. However as someone stated you would not want to replace the motor due to a bearing issue and it would be good to get an idea of repair costs unless dealers will be allowed to repair motors in the future.

 

[RobF]

I'm slightly confused by this attitude. I'd not normally respond to such a direct comment, but I really feel in this case I should just add a few points.

Firstly you're all worrying about Bosch repairs out of warranty, without actually contacting a dealer who would offer this service. Its not a complicated system, please stop worrying about things that aren't an issue, there will always be a dealer or someone who will help you if your bike is out of warranty.

Then on to your negative comments about KTM.

My first question would be, how you'd expect us to handle this case differently?

According to our records you bought your bike on eBay from a dealer, at a clearance price.

We have already done you a big favour by helping you deal with Madison to sort the minor problem with the Shimano Nexus hub that needed a bit of work.

In this new case you contacted us this week to say you had a bit of wobble. We've again dealt with you direct rather than send you back to the dealer in south wales. I've was speaking to the office yesterday - (I'm already on my way to EuroBike) and they have said they are trying to negotiate a super cheap deal, or even possibly get you a free replacement, despite the fact that Bosch won't officially cover your product because you've been using it in a modified state.

So I was about to go into a meeting with Bosch this week, and do my best to get you a free or greatly reduced drive, or we were considering other options once I'd spoken with Bosch about possibly just getting the drive serviced for you, or even swapping the whole bike as a good will gesture.

These are all things we've been discussing in our office in the few working hours since Bosch came back to us saying they wouldn't warranty it. As I understand it Tom has told you that worst case we'd offer as a good will gesture a new drive at our OEM cost.

So as KTM, I am pretty proud of what we're doing in this case. Certainly Shimano helped you out last time for us, and we're doing our best to help this time.

What would you expect us to do, to actually consider recommending the bike? Bearing in mind you've done over 4000 happy miles on it so far already. Is the problem KTM, or Bosch, or what?

Regards
Col.

It appears Stu is being well looked after, perhaps his expectations are higher than mine.

Bosch service for an out of warranty paying customer - which would be me - appears to be take the bike to a dealer who has access to 'Bosch service', whatever that is.

The dealer in my case is a well-established bike shop in Newcastle, but I've never seen a Bosch bike in there.

I suppose they ought to be capable of removing the motor to send it away, but I doubt they've ever done one.

 

[Artstu]

I've was speaking to the office yesterday - (I'm already on my way to EuroBike) and they have said they are trying to negotiate a super cheap deal, or even possibly get you a free replacement, despite the fact that Bosch won't officially cover your product because you've been using it in a modified state.

So I was about to go into a meeting with Bosch this week, and do my best to get you a free or greatly reduced drive, or we were considering other options once I'd spoken with Bosch about possibly just getting the drive serviced for you, or even swapping the whole bike as a good will gesture.

Well if that is the case I must apologise for my negative comments about KTM Col. I was speaking as a KTM owner who at the time of my comments was faced with a big bill for a new motor, of course I am appreciative of the offer of a motor at cost price. I was not aware of the other gestures you were considering and was under the impression that, that was all you had to offer me.

Phill's question caught me at a low point.

 

[RobF]

I hope the conclusion is not: worn bottom bracket on a Bosch bike = new motor.

Bottom brackets wear out on all bikes, so it ought to be a reasonably easy part to replace.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Why would you want a replacement motor at cost price? A new bearing will be about £10. You don't have to fully disassemble the motor to replace it as far as I can see.

 

[Gubbins]

My local bike shop has got hold of a ruined bosch motor and stripped it to see if and how they might repair one and in their opinion the bb bearing is "massive" and well up to the job!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

My local bike shop has got hold of a ruined bosch motor and stripped it to see if and how they might repair one and in their opinion the bb bearing is "massive" and well up to the job!

As long as it doesn't get mud and water in it. It's probably the seal that failed.

 

[Gubbins]

As long as it doesn't get mud and water in it. It's probably the seal that failed.

Power washers are bb killer

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Good point - well presented!