Bosch bearings

[wissy]

pehaps Col could ask his dealers how many would arrange repairs if a bike is out of warranty etc? I can actually appreciate why dealers would not want to do this based on issues to do with poor communication, lack of spares, lead-time to simply processing a fault prior to possible resolution and the excess time for relevant parts to simply be manufactured. I dread to think what the responses by these manufacturers would be if the part was out of warranty... Ignore or drop down the queue big time I suppose. Also the added complication of simply getting a quote from them for fixing.. Now that would add more delay and confusion I would imagine....? I can appreciate Col saying how such things should not complicate matters but from experience it is nigh on impossible for dealers to get things done at a reasonable pace due to these manufacturers' present system of support. the KTM bikes are advertised as being fantastic, as is the warranty, but really the warranty is with a multitude of companies and KTM don't really care it seems when it comes to the crunch. up to the dealers. up to the manufaturers. BUT such poor support for dealers to resolve issues will only lead to KTMs brand being associated with comoanies who do not have parts in stock, do not even deal with request for over a fortnight or simply so difficult to get in touch with? I am not going to get into the particulars on my KTM issues (we would be here for weeks) but it has to be said that I am of the view that the support given to dealers by these parts manufacturers is pretty low and feel that KTM should be more involved and held accountable for their failures rather than pass the buck to either dealers or manufacturers. It seems as if KTM don't care if their bikes fail or parts for them take weeks or months? It may be unfair that KTM is taking all this flack (sorry Col) but I am going from my experience and there are no other Bosch type bike makers on forum that ai am aware of?

 

[RobF]

Being ex-motor industry I know only too well the difference, but a factor in that very large scale market is that spares are an extremely significant part of the income of both the manufacturers and the dealers. Build a car from the spares and it will cost at least four or five times the list price of the car! With profits like that of course they make sure the spares are there to sell.

The delay you mention above is commonplace with very large manufacturers who program their production to match orders placed in advance, as Shimano do. They program in a needs-forecast proportion for spares, but if they are used at a higher rate than expectation, the delays happen. Trying to re-program for such unexpected occurrences in very large organisations can be like trying to quickly turn a supertanker.
.

I find it unlikely Shimano's production is so finely tuned that every Nexus hub is committed for months in advance.

There simply must be a spare in stock somewhere in the supply chain.

So why is the customer forced to rely on the goodwill of the retailer to cannibalise a stock bike?

It must be because Shimano/Madison see warranty work as a costly nuisance and therefore give it no priority.

 

[wissy]

The Bosch website links to leadtime for parts usually being 2-3 days (Col's link) but this is from cloud cuckoo land in my experience. A spare calssic motor took 4 weeks .. Or was it 6 actually?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

pehaps Col could ask his dealers how many would arrange repairs if a bike is out of warranty etc?

all of them do. I'm really not sure why you have this image of bike shops wanting to turn away work from? Can you give me an example of what you're concerned about. Shops often turn away customers, but its usually the customer thats the reason, not the bike.

I can actually appreciate why dealers would not want to do this based on issues to do with poor communication, lack of spares, lead-time to simply processing a fault prior to possible resolution and the excess time for relevant parts to simply be manufactured. I dread to think what the responses by these manufacturers would be if the part was out of warranty... Ignore or drop down the queue big time I suppose.

for most companies, that I've experience of the warranty stock is separate to the normal stock, so you generally get things quicker when they don't have to go though the warranty process.

but really the warranty is with a multitude of companies and KTM don't really care it seems when it comes to the crunch. up to the dealers.

in reality, your warranty is with one company - your dealer. Its then us who support them. And in some cases brands have dedicated service centres who support the dealers. But for there is one contact and thats your dealer.

do not even deal with request for over a fortnight or simply so difficult to get in touch with?

we're not difficult to get hold of. The office number is always open, and if its engaged it forward to a selection of mobiles so no one ever should have to leave a message. We reply to emails as fast as possible. So I'm afraid this simply isn't true. There might be delays getting parts out, but thats due to supply chain issues that any brand can suffer from.

This is 100% the reason why we don't deal with the public and why you won't find many brands sticking their head above the wall to discuss things.

There is lots in there that is not correct, but its not worth me picking holes in things because it'll just undermine your relationship with the dealer who has as I understand it been helping you out massively.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The Bosch website links to leadtime for parts usually being 2-3 days (Col's link) but this is from cloud cuckoo land in my experience. A spare calssic motor took 4 weeks .. Or was it 6 actually?

Thats what Bosch aim for to ship a part, but thats not the time it takes to sort out a warranty.

I know nothing about your individual case, but if there was a delay sorting a new motor, that will be the time it took to sort out the problem. That could have been because they didn't have motors in stock, or any number of other things that went on.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Being ex-motor industry I know only too well the difference, but a factor in that very large scale market is that spares are an extremely significant part of the income of both the manufacturers and the dealers. Build a car from the spares and it will cost at least four or five times the list price of the car! With profits like that of course they make sure the spares are there to sell.

The delay you mention above is commonplace with very large manufacturers who program their production to match orders placed in advance, as Shimano do. They program in a needs-forecast proportion for spares, but if they are used at a higher rate than expectation, the delays happen. Trying to re-program for such unexpected occurrences in very large organisations can be like trying to quickly turn a supertanker.
.

Your correct of course but it does not make it right. I still believe things need to change if we want cycling for all. I also believe it is possible not to be in a situation of waiting 3 or 4 months.

 

[RobF]

Thats what Bosch aim for to ship a part, but thats not the time it takes to sort out a warranty.

I know nothing about your individual case, but if there was a delay sorting a new motor, that will be the time it took to sort out the problem. That could have been because they didn't have motors in stock, or any number of other things that went on.

Not forgetting the general shortage of Bosch motors which, unhappily for Wissy, may have coincided with her need for one.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

It was a shortage of motors which was the problem.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I find it unlikely Shimano's production is so finely tuned that every Nexus hub is committed for months in advance.

There simply must be a spare in stock somewhere in the supply chain.

So why is the customer forced to rely on the goodwill of the retailer to cannibalise a stock bike?

It must be because Shimano/Madison see warranty work as a costly nuisance and therefore give it no priority.

Shimano and other large companies could solve the problem if they invested the money and time. I am concerned that people would be put off especially if another dealer was not quite so forthcoming.

 

[wissy]

Perhaps Col misunderstood me. I cannot possibly express my satisfaction with electrifying cycles in Words eloquent enough (unless in Welsh ). They have been, and continue to be amazing, flexible, helpful beyound what is expected of a dealer. The relationship there is exeptional ther and in no way was I implying there was an issue with the dealer. the issue is the time it takes for dealers to get the support they need and the parts they need through no fault of their own. i just feel for them to be honest.

 

[wissy]

And the communication issue are not KTM Col but the manufacturers eg SRAM.

 

[Kuorider]

Should we not be asking why these bearings are failing so often. My Nephew has an expensive road bike with two BB replacements in 6 Months. Shop says he is abusing these !! How precisely can a rider abuse a BB bearing by riding the thing ? He has been using my 40 year old road bike meantime with it's old ball bearing BB still in perfect condition. Are these cartridge things inherently faulty or cheaply made down to a price. What is wrong with good old well tried adjustable ball bearings anyway, £3 and 20 mins to replace.

 

[RobF]

Shimano and other large companies could solve the problem if they invested the money and time. I am concerned that people would be put off especially if another dealer was not quite so forthcoming.

You will know better than I, but this attitude to service has been ingrained in the bike industry for many years.

When bikes were simpler, retailers could paper over the cracks.

That's harder to do with ebikes.

Improvements in customer service elsewhere makes the cycle industry appear even more backward.

 

[JohnCade]

You will know better than I, but this attitude to service has been ingrained in the bike industry for many years.

When bikes were simpler, retailers could paper over the cracks.

That's harder to do with ebikes.

Improvements in customer service elsewhere makes the cycle industry appear even more backward.

Right, and remember the car and motorcycle industries came out of the bicycle trade. I have no idea what policies the Humber bicycle company had in regard to warranty issues. But whatever they were they had to modernise them when they became a car company selling to a mass market.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Rob you are correct but unless we all put pressure on nothing will ever change. What I found astounding is people simply accept this perhaps from apathy. Too many excuses rather than a solution focused attitude i.e. how can we solve this problem and ensure it is not repeated. Nobody is perfect but with effort the problems could be resolved. Change is definitely needed!

 

[Gubbins]

Is it me or am I looking at an expensive peice of unusable metal if my bosch powered bike ends up with a relatively minor problem? This thread is making hub powered bikes look much more attractive!

 

[RobF]

Is it me or am I looking at an expensive peice of unusable metal if my bosch powered bike ends up with a relatively minor problem? This thread is making hub powered bikes look much more attractive!

Most of this thread is about warranty work.

I doubt you would have the same problems getting a Bosch bike fixed as a paying customer.

Paying or not, the expertise is thinner on the ground than it should be, so there would be some messing around getting the broken bike and the man who knows how to fix it in the same place.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Paying or not, the expertise is thinner on the ground than it should be, so there would be some messing around getting the broken bike and the man who knows how to fix it in the same place.

That would be me... Providing you are one of my eBike customers of course

 

[wissy]

And I think that is the problem we have.. Dealers / seller will only want to, if at all, deal with their own bikes' issues. There will be a definite growth market in servicing / fixing all these Bosch pedelecs .. Especially after 2 years is up. I know the Kalkhoffs seem to be selling well second hand after 2-5 years and with decent prices still for second hand bikes. Will same be said of Bosch motored pedelecs after 2 years? Is it not in the next year or two that we start to see much more second hand ones on the market?

 

[Gubbins]

And I think that is the problem we have.. Dealers / seller will only want to, if at all, deal with their own bikes' issues. There will be a definite growth market in servicing / fixing all these Bosch pedelecs .. Especially after 2 years is up. I know the Kalkhoffs seem to be selling well second hand after 2-5 years and with decent prices still for second hand bikes. Will same be said of Bosch motored pedelecs after 2 years? Is it not in the next year or two that we start to see much more second hand ones on the market?

After reading this would you want to buy one used? I am thinking of a new purchase of a Bosch powered full sus bike to replace my hard tail as its a bit ... Hard!! But, who is out there that would want to buy it? certainly not many around here! Will dealers take them in PX? Who knows, but probably not. Time to seriously rethink.
I have been hiding my head in the sand over the "How to get things that might go wrong fixed" issue, but now for me at least its out in the open.