BikeBiz story about eBikes.

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Our dealers have asked us to make a push on this... so we are:

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/brands-must-be-tough-on-e-bike-modifications-says-supplier/018585

 

[mike killay]

It must be pointed out that some Marques such as Tonaro do not need a dongle, just slide the magnet on the rear wheel spoke up bit so that it misses the sensor.

 

[tommie]

Our dealers have asked us to make a push on this... so we are:

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/brands-must-be-tough-on-e-bike-modifications-says-supplier/018585

A lot of waffle about the fear of projected profit margins falling.

Why dont you dealers get your customers to sign a disclaimer on your sales invoice to cover your a$$es seeing you`re so worried??

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Why dont you dealers get your customers to sign a disclaimer on your sales invoice to cover your a$$es seeing you`re so worried??

Because dongle'd bikes aren't CE certified, so a disclaimer doesn't remove a dealers responsibility under Trading Standards.

and a disclaimer won't help us if access for all eBikes, or worse all Mountain bikes is removed.

ps://twitter.com/carltonreid

One of the most respected journalists in the UK shared my letter with his 17,000 followers with the addition:

"Risk isn't just that e-MTBs will be banned, risk is that *all* MTBs will be banned. Slippery slope, in many more ways than one."

He knows more than me, so if he thinks there is a risk, I'd believe him.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Interesting comment from Michael Bonney....(Orange Bikes), which pretty much sums up the attitude from many in cycling, which is the the eBike industry can't police itself, so we're best just banning them.

"And how does the layman differentiate a legal ebike and a chipped, US spec or e powered enduro bike like a Stealth? They can't other than the speed they'll do passing them. Land owners like FE won't either other than looking at why they are building trails for motor cycles which is what they are. For the last few years e bike dealers have demonstrated they will flout the law and are only interested in profit as they sold eu spec bikes not uk, hardly a responsible attitude so we can't rely upon them not to sell chipped ebikes!"

So we could end up with a situation whereby the Motorcycle industry is anti ebike and the cycle industry is anti eBike.... and who do you think has more lobbying power: the eBike industry, the cycle industry or the Motorbike industry??

I'll leave you to think about the outcome.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Currently top news story on the MBR website.... is guess what?

http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/bike_news/off-road-ebikes-could-be-banned-due-to-removal-of-speed-limitations-by-rogue-dealers-334582

 

[KirstinS]

Interesting comment from Michael Bonney....(Orange Bikes), which pretty much sums up the attitude from many in cycling, which is the the eBike industry can't police itself, so we're best just banning them.

"And how does the layman differentiate a legal ebike and a chipped, US spec or e powered enduro bike like a Stealth? They can't other than the speed they'll do passing them. Land owners like FE won't either other than looking at why they are building trails for motor cycles which is what they are. For the last few years e bike dealers have demonstrated they will flout the law and are only interested in profit as they sold eu spec bikes not uk, hardly a responsible attitude so we can't rely upon them not to sell chipped ebikes!"

So we could end up with a situation whereby the Motorcycle industry is anti ebike and the cycle industry is anti eBike.... and who do you think has more lobbying power: the eBike industry, the cycle industry or the Motorbike industry??

I'll leave you to think about the outcome.

The outcome should be S pedelecs

Sooner the better

Has that harmed Germany's mtb industry? I don't believe so and have seen no evidence to suggest.

Happy to be proved wrong

 

[KirstinS]

Advances in ebike tech have made it very easy to be on wrong side ofv law.

Just change settings in lcd on a 250w system

You used to have to build booster batteries, overvolt , buy custom contRollers and generally get seriously up skilled!

Perhaps a change to the law, just tweak the no off road button to no speed limit removal option.

Not advocating anything just a thought

 

[EddiePJ]

As you already know, concerns have already been raised about the use of e-mtb's at organised mtb sportive events. The most recent being an Evans ride it, where many questions were asked, and many issues raised.
I'm riding another in a weeks time, and it'll be interesting to see how things go with the organisers that day. I'm already expecting the potential for them to refuse my entry, and in reality I can't blame them. One accident and claim involving an e-mtb fitted with a dongle, could pretty much destroy a company, and as they have no way to check/police it, the only option available to them, is to ban all e-mtb's.
I won't argue the case if they so decide to take this action, as I shall just take along the pedal mtb, and reduce the ride length. I shall be deeply disappointed though, that my riding pleasure and the riding pleasure for potentially countless others over time, has been spoilt by a minority through their actions of blatantly flouting the law, which will have caused this chain of events to happen. I'm sure that trail centres will quickly follow suit as well, with even more e-mtb riders then facing disappointment.
I hope that it won't ever come to this, but I'm not going to be surprised if it does.

 

[RobF]

From a purely campaigning/PR point of view, I think Col's tactics are poor.

By raising the temperature in the way he has, he is increasing the chances of a ban happening, which he doesn't want.

I respect the stance he takes - it's his right and I can see some sense in it, although for this purpose what I think doesn't matter.

Col would have been better advised to maintain that stance with the businesses he controls, but without making such a public fuss about it.

 

[tommie]

I'm riding another in a weeks time, and it'll be interesting to see how things go with the organisers that day. I'm already expecting the potential for them to refuse my entry, and in reality I can't blame them.

I may be stating the obvious but if you`re going to get into such a state about this why can`t you just remove the dongle when doing such an event and then replace after?

 

[Nealh]

I may be stating the obvious but if you`re going to get into such a state about this why can`t you just remove the dongle when doing such an event and then replace after?

Ed doesn't vocate their use so doesn't own or have one fitted either, he's just expressing the feedback he gets at the events.

 

[EddiePJ]

That saved some typing.

 

[tommie]

I may be stating the obvious but if you`re going to get into such a state about this why can`t they just remove the dongle when doing such an event and then replace after?

`corrected`

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

From a purely campaigning/PR point of view, I think Col's tactics are poor.

By raising the temperature in the way he has, he is increasing the chances of a ban happening, which he doesn't want.

I respect the stance he takes - it's his right and I can see some sense in it, although for this purpose what I think doesn't matter.

Col would have been better advised to maintain that stance with the businesses he controls, but without making such a public fuss about it.

I appreciate your point of view, but you have to realise we've been "maintaining our stance" for nearly 4 years, and we've been closing dealers accounts, or not opening them if they supply dongles.

We couldn't sit back any longer, as there is a growing awareness of eBikes, and a growing number of them being used a trail centres and events. We're pushing eBikes hard in the mainstream cycling press and other brands are doing the same. Now was the time to put pressure on Haibike and Scott to stop supplying dealers who insist on promoting dongles.

We know we can't stop people selling dongles, what we're trying to do is get the brands to stop supporting dealers who sell the dongles with bikes. This is for 2 reasons, mainly that the UK eBike dealer network should not be promoting dongles (and most dealers agree to this) and the big brands should be standing strong on this, but secondly by fitting a dongle to a bike at the point of sale it means its not longer classed as a bicycle so the CE certificate and testing is invalid so the bike shops themselves are at risk from trading standards.

Our aim is simply education and increased awareness of the problem.

Our desired solution is a UK network of eBike shops that don't advocate the use of dongles because they can see the harm it can cause themselves, their customers and the industry. Of course an individual can always go online and buy one, but if all bike shops / brands are sending out a unified message of the problems with using them off-road at least the risk of access being restricted will be minimised.

If we loose it, its going to be impossible to get it back! So we acted now before we loose it.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I may be stating the obvious but if you`re going to get into such a state about this why can`t you just remove the dongle when doing such an event and then replace after?

They'd have to remove the dongle every time they went offroad for the risk of access being removed to be averted.

 

[Emo Rider]

We know we can't stop people selling dongles, what we're trying to do is get the brands to stop supporting dealers who sell the dongles with bikes. This is for 2 reasons, mainly that the UK eBike dealer network should not be promoting dongles (and most dealers agree to this) and the big brands should be standing strong on this, but secondly by fitting a dongle to a bike at the point of sale it means its not longer classed as a bicycle so the CE certificate and testing is invalid so the bike shops themselves are at risk from trading standards.

And this is how it should be. I do totally agree that running illegal ebikes anywhere, on trail, the street or shared pedestrianized areas, is a recipe for disaster with regard to the ebike industry. Those using modified bikes do it with a nudge, nudge, wink, wink attitude thinking it does no harm.

The businesses that flagrantly sell modified bikes should be taken to task. Either that or make it a necessity that all modified bikes carry large, easy to read identification on the frame that says "For private land use only." Further to that, responsible bike shops should work with police to help educate in the identification of illegal bikes. I agree with the poster from KTM, it is just a matter of time before the bomb goes off.

 

[EddiePJ]

Currently top news story on the MBR website.... is guess what?

I see that Scott, Lapierre and Haibike, have each pulled down the links that I put on their respective FB pages.

 

[SRS]

They'd have to remove the dongle every time they went offroad for the risk of access being removed to be averted.

Surely it is the damn 15mph limit thats the problem. Get rid of that and the issue that you keep blatting on about will go away.

A 250w unrestricted bike is speed self limiting by the very fact that it has a tiny motor.

If there are events and centres that require have a speed limit, this could easily be implemented at the push of a button.

There is nothing wrong with an ebike that has decent practical performance levels and I look forward to the day that my first S pedelec arrives.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Surely it is the damn 15mph limit thats the problem. Get rid of that and the issue that you keep blatting on about will go away.

A 250w unrestricted bike is speed self limiting by the very fact that it has a tiny motor.

If there are events and centres that require have a speed limit, this could easily be implemented at the push of a button.

There is nothing wrong with an ebike that has decent practical performance levels and I look forward to the day that my first S pedelec arrives.

Again... Missing the point I'm afraid.

The problem isn't the speed, or any potential increase in danger or anything like that. The problem is they are not legally allowed to be used. So until the law is changed anyone using them illegally at these venues or events in jeopardising future access for everyone.

Interesting thing to note from this weeks activities. Many many people, including company directors of big brands have contacted me from all over Europe to support our letter. The U.K. Cycling press have all featured it as they are concerned. However the Ebike press have stayed away from any coverage, it appears to afraid to help educate their readers. Also no reply from haibike or Scott yet.