BikeBiz story about eBikes.

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,867
6,491
http://www.shop.flidistribution.co.uk/k/policies#9

i can not see any mention of dongles on there and what will happen warranty wise if 1 is used.

how can you tell anyway, you cant as all motors go back to bosch and martin gets replacements? cant see in a million years he forking out for them.
 
if we cant get a reply i doubt he will lol its 1 thing fitting a dongle that can be removed its another doing it so it cant.

if i knew that id told him get the bad as dongle so he could remove it himself tho he wanted a dongle end off tbh and warranty.
Please private message me, I know some guys at lapierre. If your friends doesn't get a reply from Ebike shop let me know. He doesn't have a warranty with bosch, so Ebike shop will have to buy him a new motor if his fails... Which they can do.
 
http://www.shop.flidistribution.co.uk/k/policies#9

i can not see any mention of dongles on there and what will happen warranty wise if 1 is used.

how can you tell anyway, you cant as all motors go back to bosch and martin gets replacements? cant see in a million years he forking out for them.
That's the general terms and conditions for our website, we don't sell bikes to the public so don't have a single thing on there. But we should, so we will get something added in the next few days.
 
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mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
Why try to rail against this measure?
Dongles make an ebike a motor bike.
No argument.
If I was an event organiser and I knew about dongles, I would ban all bikes likely to use them.
i.e. Bosch
 
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mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
Lets face it, the German 4th Reich sorry EU will do all that it can to protect Bosch, the throttle matter is evidence. If Bosch sell in large numbers in the USA, then throttles will become available on German bikes.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,867
6,491
it has the Yamaha motor lol but i can get both anyway tbh if it comes to that.

i doubt it will tho as should last him for what he does on it ;)
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,867
6,491
i just checked a few bike shops tc and again no mention of dongles and the warranty being void when using them.

tho most ones i did email a while back said they will void the hole warranty of the bike if they found 1 had been used.

i think that should be made crystal clear on any shops tc to avoid upset and major problems if something goes wrong in the warrant period.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,867
6,491
tho on the other hand the bosch motor is 350w and restricted to 250w for uk law buy bosch software so using a dongle just makes it what it was designed for in a different way than bosch software tuning set up ect.

so in real terms you/shops retailers will void the warranty on the uk law side of things than what the motor was designed for in the first place, thus s pedelecs.
 

Crockers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2014
821
689
71
Under consumer law the dealer would have to prove that your modifications were the cause of any failure. Engine burnt out may be proven but a saddle splitting wouldn't
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,867
6,491
dealers cant touch bosch motors all have to go back to them for warranty replacement so no way for dealers to test it anyway bar basic test or reinstall software.

my bike now out of warranty and still have to send mine in to pay for a new 1 fkn nuts lol
 
Under consumer law the dealer would have to prove that your modifications were the cause of any failure. Engine burnt out may be proven but a saddle splitting wouldn't
I'd love to be able to agree with you... however

Warranty can be voided on the whole bike if its used in a manor it wasn't designed for. The bike wasn't built / specced by the brand to be an sPedelec, so by adding a dongle you will void the warranty on the whole bike, because its being used in a manner that it wasn't designed for.
 
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Crockers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2014
821
689
71
I'd love to be able to agree with you... however

Warranty can be voided on the whole bike if its used in a manor it wasn't designed for. The bike wasn't built / specced by the brand to be an sPedelec, so by adding a dongle you will void the warranty on the whole bike, because its being used in a manner that it wasn't designed for.
Wow. "Manner that it was designed for".

Two points. 1- is that the exact wording??
2- if so then the grammar needs work and you'd never get that to stand up in a court. I could drive a coach and horses through that wording.

I do understand where you're coming from and do agree with your views BUT I truly hope your wording is better than that.
 

Emo Rider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 10, 2014
659
414
Wow. "Manner that it was designed for".

Two points. 1- is that the exact wording??
2- if so then the grammar needs work and you'd never get that to stand up in a court. I could drive a coach and horses through that wording.

I do understand where you're coming from and do agree with your views BUT I truly hope your wording is better than that.
Raleigh and Bosch released this awhile back:
Raleigh UK the distributors of Haibike electric bikes have just made this statement concerning the use of dongles or derestriction devices on ebikes... read on....

Raleigh's position on de-restricting electric bikes


Dear Consumer:

Re. Raleigh's position on de-restricting electric bikes

As you may or may not be aware, there has been much talk recently of the de-restriction of electric bikes in the UK to exceed current legal limits.

To be clear on our position we are adding the below information to our public facing websites in relation to our ebikes.

These statements are in line with the best interests of our consumers and of course in line with recommendations from our suppliers.

The following notification will be added to each e-bike on our websites:

Important

Please be aware that this bike is regulated in line with existing Electric Power Assisted Cycles regulations.

Any modification to the bike will invalidate the guarantee and in particular any modification which increases the power of the motor and/or the top assisted speed of the bike may make the rider liable to prosecution.

Excluding statutory obligations Raleigh will not be held responsible for any injuries incurred following any modification to this product.

Furthermore, the following will be added to FAQ section of our websites:

Is Tuning Authorised?

The are various companies and individuals who offer a "tuning" or customized modification of Bosch e-bike Systems, especially through the internet.

As the original component manufacturer, Bosch e-Bike Systems strongly advises against using such products and services, or attempting to modify a Bosch e-Bike System yourself: there is a great risk of shortening your system's service life, and of damaging both the drive unit and the bike.

There is also the danger of negating the guarantee and warranty claims on the bike you purchased.

In addition, improper treatment of the system will endanger your safety and that of other road users, risking accidents as a result of this tuning, as well as steep personal liability costs and even criminal prosecution.

Therefore, Bosch e-Bike Systems calls upon all e-bike riders and vendors to refrain from "tuning" products and services.

I want to buy a used ebike whose owner claims to have made some "improvements" to the system. What do you recommend?

Our clear advice in this situation: Stay away from such offers.

The Bosch e-Bike System is designed for maximum safety and service life, and all components of the system are controlled and monitored by very complex software. Any intervention in the structure of the system will almost certainly lead to deterioration in function: It can jeopardize the safety of the rider, cause wear to greatly increase, or even mean that operation and use violate legal regulations.

Any work on the system except by an authorized person or organization following the manufacturers' guidelines would certainly negate any Guarantee or Warranty offered by the manufacturer or supplier.

Best Regards
Raleigh UK

Published Thursday 27 November 2014
 
Wow. "Manner that it was designed for".

Two points. 1- is that the exact wording??
2- if so then the grammar needs work and you'd never get that to stand up in a court. I could drive a coach and horses through that wording.

I do understand where you're coming from and do agree with your views BUT I truly hope your wording is better than that.
No, of course that's not the exact wording, lol. That was me typing on a forum before I'd even had a coffee.

This is the official wording from the KTM website, but as I'm sure you'll appreciate its a pretty bad translation from German, but you can see what they, and every brand says.

"There can't be a warranty-claim if the original construction or equipment has been modfied or the bike has been used inadequately."

my interpretation of that would be - if you modify your bike and remove the speed restriction... you probably aren't covered because all the components were put on that bike with the intention that it was going to be a bicycle... and CE certified as such. If you fit a dongle, its not longer CE certified as a bicycle therefore not tested as safe to be used, and therefore your warranty is not valid!
 

Crockers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2014
821
689
71
No, of course that's not the exact wording, lol. That was me typing on a forum before I'd even had a coffee.

This is the official wording from the KTM website, but as I'm sure you'll appreciate its a pretty bad translation from German, but you can see what they, and every brand says.

"There can't be a warranty-claim if the original construction or equipment has been modfied or the bike has been used inadequately."

my interpretation of that would be - if you modify your bike and remove the speed restriction... you probably aren't covered because all the components were put on that bike with the intention that it was going to be a bicycle... and CE certified as such. If you fit a dongle, its not longer CE certified as a bicycle therefore not tested as safe to be used, and therefore your warranty is not valid!
Lol. Hope you enjoyed the coffee.
Imho if the claim went to court the manufacturers would have to prove the failed item was due to the modification. Easily done if the engine died etc but not if the frame snapped or similar.

Mind you anyone taking the manufacturers to a court may have problems with the DPP as by using such a bike they've broken the law.

Gotta laugh at the translation. I wonder how many owners use their bikes inadequately.
 

Twangman

Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2012
114
19
London
A few things that struck me on the Dongle issue
1) when speds become legal will the sale of dongles drop?
2)If I was a dealer and I was getting pressure from the trade to stop selling dongles what's to stop me quietly setting up a secondery business In a different
name to sell dongles.
3)When speds are made legal will KTM and the rest start making a MTB versions?
 

Crockers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2014
821
689
71
A few things that struck me on the Dongle issue
1) when speds become legal will the sale of dongles drop?
2)If I was a dealer and I was getting pressure from the trade to stop selling dongles what's to stop me quietly setting up a secondery business In a different
name to sell dongles.
3)When speds are made legal will KTM and the rest start making a MTB versions?
KTM already make and dell a S pedelec. Just not via a UK dealer.
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
A few things that struck me on the Dongle issue
1) when speds become legal will the sale of dongles drop?
2)If I was a dealer and I was getting pressure from the trade to stop selling dongles what's to stop me quietly setting up a secondery business In a different
name to sell dongles.
3)When speds are made legal will KTM and the rest start making a MTB versions?
What makes you thing that greater speed - which is what I assume you mean - will become legal in the UK?
 
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Twangman

Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2012
114
19
London
What makes you thing that greater speed - which is what I assume you mean - will become legal in the UK?
Speds will probably be made legal in the uk in 2017. What will be required of one to own one is up for discussion by the powers that be, ie will you need licence, plate, insurance,helmet.
I personally have no desire to own a bike that go as fast as a moped but at the same time I have no problems with those who do.
 
Speds will probably be made legal in the uk in 2017. What will be required of one to own one is up for discussion by the powers that be, ie will you need licence, plate, insurance,helmet.
I personally have no desire to own a bike that go as fast as a moped but at the same time I have no problems with those who do.
I think that's optimistic... and even then you won't be able to use those bikes offroad at all, so all the points of our letter and the campaign just being started by the unhappy Scott and Haibike dealers is still valid, and will continue to be even if sPedelecs become legally to use in the UK.