BikeBiz story about eBikes.

[SRS]

Again... Missing the point I'm afraid.

The problem isn't the speed, or any potential increase in danger or anything like that. The problem is they are not legally allowed to be used. So until the law is changed anyone using them illegally at these venues or events in jeopardising future access for everyone.

Interesting thing to note from this weeks activities. Many many people, including company directors of big brands have contacted me from all over Europe to support our letter. The U.K. Cycling press have all featured it as they are concerned. However the Ebike press have stayed away from any coverage, it appears to afraid to help educate their readers. Also no reply from haibike or Scott yet.

Readers do not need to be educated. Most know the legalities.

All your little campaign will achieve is to ultimately inhibit the full potential of the E- bike market and assist in lowering long term sales figures.

Take a look at any MTB mag. More speed tuition, special downhill courses to go even faster etc etc. The MTB industry push and push speed so naturally riders want to go faster and faster.

They seem to have fogot that you can poodle slowly, exploring the wilds, even go uphill on one but hey hoy, that's how its going.

Sure, the dongles are illegal at the moment but why not spend your efforts positively and help get them approved, sell more bikes and increase sales.

It worries me that you are going to kill the ebike industry before its got started.

 

[Emo Rider]

Again... Missing the point I'm afraid.

The problem isn't the speed, or any potential increase in danger or anything like that. The problem is they are not legally allowed to be used. So until the law is changed anyone using them illegally at these venues or events in jeopardising future access for everyone.

Interesting thing to note from this weeks activities. Many many people, including company directors of big brands have contacted me from all over Europe to support our letter. The U.K. Cycling press have all featured it as they are concerned. However the Ebike press have stayed away from any coverage, it appears to afraid to help educate their readers. Also no reply from haibike or Scott yet.

It seem amazing that so many think that fast is OK and ebikes should be faster even though the law is to the contrary. They seem oblivious to the harm to the ebikes industry that people whom flaunt the law can do. If they think the EU regulators are going to give in just because "Everyone's doing it." sadly mistaken they are.

They only need to educate themselves with the new regs coming in January 1st regarding throttles. Everybody that sells throttled bikes in England are shaking their heads over the fact that throttle speed will be restricted to 4mph. A backward move as seen by many. If they think the EU is going to allow fast ebikes without a lot of red tape attached, they have another thing coming......and it's not going to be pleasant.

 

[Emo Rider]

Readers do not need to be educated. Most know the legalities.

All your little campaign will achieve is to ultimately inhibit the full potential of the E- bike market and assist in lowering long term sales figures.

Take a look at any MTB mag. More speed tuition, special downhill courses to go even faster etc etc. The MTB industry push and push speed so naturally riders want to go faster and faster.

They seem to have fogot that you can poodle slowly, exploring the wilds, even go uphill on one but hey hoy, that's how its going.

Sure, the dongles are illegal at the moment but why not spend your efforts positively and help get them approved, sell more bikes and increase sales.

It worries me that you are going to kill the ebike industry before its got started.

Ask anyone that owns a throttled bike if they'd like to loose their throttle. The answer would be a resounding no. Riders with dongles would react the same way. The big difference is that 15mph throttles were legal to be sold, dongles never were. They will be able to continue to use their throttled bike after the new year. They just will not be able to buy a new one that will go 15mph. The EU regulators will never allow dongled bikes without restrictions such as permits, insurance, registration etc. They've good at that.

 

[SRS]

Ask anyone that owns a throttled bike if they'd like to loose their throttle. The answer would be a resounding no. Riders with dongles would react the same way. The big difference is that 15mph throttles were legal to be sold, dongles never were. They will be able to continue to use their throttled bike after the new year. They just will not be able to buy a new one that will go 15mph. The EU regulators will never allow dongled bikes without restrictions such as permits, insurance, registration etc. They've good at that.

You have summed up why the E bike market will never be allowed to reach its full potential.
The throttle business is just an attack on the weaker or disabled rider.

The lack of speed options with or without insurance etc is just a way of stunting the growth of green transport. Luckily we are still encouraged to use petrol power.

 

[mike killay]

To me, the EU rule on throttles just means that sales of European made ebikes will decline in the UK.
The Chinese will provide throttles as after market equipment for Chinese made bikes.

 

[Tomtomato]

IMHO, the 15mph speed limit is not an issue: I am happy with that speed, and I am still going faster on average than many other cyclists.

If people want something going faster or with a throttle, then they can buy a moped or a scooter.

I have been several times at a dealer recently, and I see people coming in with S pedelec bikes, without registration plates (and probably insurance, license etc). Those people will end up creating accidents (by going at 28mph on cycling lanes etc), and have ebikes looking negative in the public opinion (or trigger a regulation change).

The dealer is doing nothing about it (e.g. enforcing registration plates for instance, checking paperwork etc).

Unfortunately, many people are not good at accessing risks, and it's only when they injure someone, without having a third party insurance and/or with an illegal bike that they will have understood their lesson... Same applies to dealers, selling dongles (or encouraging their use) or not enforcing measures on S pedelecs.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Readers do not need to be educated. Most know the legalities.

You might like to think they do... having spent 3 days talking to the public at the NEC Cycle Show in September, I can assure you that the VAST majority of people who ride eBikes don't understand the legalities. As has been shown even on here, where most readers are more educated about the law than elsewhere... people still think its like chipping a car, speeding.

All your little campaign will achieve is to ultimately inhibit the full potential of the E- bike market and assist in lowering long term sales figures.

Take a look at any MTB mag. More speed tuition, special downhill courses to go even faster etc etc. The MTB industry push and push speed so naturally riders want to go faster and faster.

.... and I'm one of them..... I've raced Downhill at World Cup level and believe me I like to go fast. HOWEVER all mountain bikes are passionate about the access rights we've worked hard to secure over the past 25 years. Legal eBikes are counted as bicycles so are allowed everywhere we are.... Dongled eBikes are not counted as bicycles, so are not allowed anywhere. So if people used them on bridleways in National Parks they could even impact on mountain bike access. So yes, I'm afraid I'd rather kill all eBike sales, than risk an impact on the MTB industry as a whole. Which is why I think its better we show as an eBike industry that we can police ourselves, and act now. So whilst we're pushing for sPedelecs to be legalised, we do not encourage people to make their own and use them illegally at venues and events where they could easily cause long term problems for everyone.

They seem to have fogot that you can poodle slowly, exploring the wilds, even go uphill on one but hey hoy, that's how its going.

No ones stopping anyone doing this... all we're saying is "you can do this on a legal eBike... there is no need to dongle it!"

Sure, the dongles are illegal at the moment but why not spend your efforts positively and help get them approved, sell more bikes and increase sales.

Dongles will always be, because of trading standards... if there is scope for faster eBikes it will come from sPedelecs, but they will not be able to be used offroad like normal bikes.

It worries me that you are going to kill the ebike industry before its got started.

So help us stop it from being a problem. Write to Haibike and Scott and express your concern that their actions are causing us to do this.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

It also features on SingleTrack World over the weekend. Looks like nearly 12,000 people have read the article already.

http://singletrackworld.com/2015/10/ebikes-could-be-banned-says-uk-ebike-distributor/

 

[trex]

You might like to think they do... having spent 3 days talking to the public at the NEC Cycle Show in September, I can assure you that the VAST majority of people who ride eBikes don't understand the legalities.

Perhaps the vast majority of people don't care about your issue because they buy their bike for transport and not for participating in a competitive sport?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Perhaps the vast majority of people don't care about your issue because they buy their bike for transport and not for participating in a competitive sport?

Trex.... its not about it being competitive sport. no one is suggest people are using these to race.

People do care, everyone I spoke to at the NEC was shocked that the dealer who sold them the bike hadn't informed them that they couldn't use it offroad. Its this ignorance we're trying to do something about.

Just for everyone's information Cube are backing us with this push, which is great news, because up until Friday there were a couple of their dealers who were selling dongles.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Just to give an example to our case, and why I care.

This Sunday I went for a ride with my wife around the beautiful Derwent and Ladybower valleys in the Peak District.

The road / trails are closed to motor vehicles, so families and cyclist are free to enjoy the views and get some fresh air and exercise.

My wife rode the KTM Nuvinchi eBike and I was on my cyclo race bike. Its a perfect match and we had a great couple of hours riding around. We also saw a few other people on eBikes which was great.

Should the National Park decide to ban eBikes, this place would be out of bounds to my wife and the others who currently use their eBikes on the trails.

I'd be gutted!

 

[Tubamanandy]

Where exactly is this view taken from ? Very beautiful

 

[SRS]

@KTM Bike Industries UK

I take some of your points on board but do feel that you are somewhat paranoid.

I'm really not sure that this was ever a problem until you started shouting.

If you wish to put a stop to this, would it not have been better to quietly have the manufacturers install a cheap gps chips in their controllers to limit speed under power.

That way any temporary illegal activities would pass by the wayside until the few sold dongles die out.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Where exactly is this view taken from ? Very beautiful

Its basically point 2 on this map, beautiful part of the world.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

@KTM Bike Industries UK

I take some of your points on board but do feel that you are somewhat paranoid.

I'm really not sure that this was ever a problem until you started shouting.

If you wish to put a stop to this, would it not have been better to quietly have the manufacturers install a cheap gps chips in their controllers to limit speed under power.

That way any temporary illegal activities would pass by the wayside until the few sold dongles die out.

I would love to hope you're correct, but I'm afraid with the information and conversations I have access to, I'm sorry to say that your optimism that things can stay underground is misplaced.

Unless we do something, and by that I mean educate people of the negative impacts of selling and buying dongle'd bikes to use offroad I'm afraid access will be lost and it could happen within 18 months to 2 years if the rise in the profile of eBikes with the eyes of the decision makers in the industry continues at the pace it currently is.

Luckily brands like Cube also see the danger, they threatened a dealer over the weekend and now dongles are off their website. If they persist on selling them they will loose their Cube account. We just need dealers to see they don't need to sell them, create a situation where dealers are competing on a level legal playing field.

The British Gravity Enduro Series is planning a eBike category next season, so the Foresty Commission and other land owners will be made aware of the issue.... we need to get in and stop the problem before the easiest solution is banning all eBikes from their land.

If you want to think I'm paranoid thats fine, but I think its better to be safe than sorry, and I promise you, I have lots of information that gives me reason to believe I'm not being paranoid.

 

[SRS]

If you have rats in your restaurant, best to get rid of them quietly rather than advertise them to the world.

I'll watch this space and your progress with interest.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

If you have rats in your restaurant, best to get rid of them quietly rather than advertise them to the world.

I'll watch this space and your progress with interest.

Using your analogy ... As said before, we've been trying quietly for years... Haibike aren't listening to a gentle bit of persuasion, so we've had to go public, because if we don't we could loose the restaurant anyway.

 

[soundwave]

well my m8 did get a lapp fs 600 from martin and he has put the dongle inside his motor so he can not remove it him self, well he can but needs to take off the motor cover to do so.

so i take it if now anything happens to him or any 1 else ebike shop will be liable in court ?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

well my m8 did get a lapp fs 600 from martin and he has put the dongle inside his motor so he can not remove it him self, well he can but needs to take off the motor cover to do so.

so i take it if now anything happens to him or any 1 else ebike shop will be liable in court ?

Ask him to ask Ebike shop if his bike is covered under trading standards law. Because it's no longer ce certified and see what he says. But yes Ebike shop are liable for a lot of things!!

 

[soundwave]

if we cant get a reply i doubt he will lol its 1 thing fitting a dongle that can be removed its another doing it so it cant.

if i knew that id told him get the bad as dongle so he could remove it himself tho he wanted a dongle end off tbh and warranty.