Bike Europe draws attention to illegal tuning kits

[oldtom]

Many people have built the sorts of machines that I am interested in, me included.

And the point of such machines is....?

Tom

 

[Stalkingcat]

Oh dear

Its like I've walked in to an old ladies knitting convention, with the wrong type of knitting needles.

Sorry to have bothered you.

 

[D8ve]

Link to 105 mph legal electric motorcycle for £20,000.
http://www.agilitymotors.com/bikes/saietta-r.html

 

[jonathan75]

I see the ICE as being almost a thing of the past within the next 5 years, so am more interested in that side of things and the exciting possibilities ahead.

Then why do projections show an anticipated increase in ICE usage rather than decrease? You do realise that the sort of sunk costs of trillions and trillions of dollars in infrastructure supplying the requirements for ICEs, such as fuel, and upon which many key national economies are based, and which have sprung up organically through markets over time, cannot just be replaced without an unprecedented state intervention in alternative infrastructure, building thousands of nuclear power stations, and excavating half of china to make batteries, a project for which there is no political will whatsoever? Google or search Google Scholar for 'path dependence petrol' to get a sense of what you're straying into here.

 

[flecc]

Its like I've walked in to an old ladies knitting convention, with the wrong type of knitting needles.

I think what we are struggling with is the concept of a 10 kW assisted bicycle. As Old Tom said, what is the point, circa 2% drive from the cyclist and 98% from the e-drive seems to lack any logic.
.

 

[RobF]

Oh dear

Its like I've walked in to an old ladies knitting convention, with the wrong type of knitting needles.

Sorry to have bothered you.

Close the door on the way out, young man, the draft is no good for my knees.

 

[trex]

hybrid car technology illustrates what MPG and range can be achieved when a small petrol engine is supplemented by electric drive. The battery of new BMW i8 on Top Gear tonight has only 7KWH. It may be possible to transfer this technology to two wheelers, we need more work done on this now. I don't think registration is going to be a problem when someone has developed a practical and capable solution.

 

[flecc]

I agree, but Stalking Cat is ruling out the petrol part and speaking of a human electric hybrid with power ratios that make no sense.

As for two wheel hybrids, Honda and Yamaha are already well advanced in developing these, link here
.

 

[Stalkingcat]

I agree, but Stalking Cat is ruling out the petrol part and speaking of a human electric hybrid with power ratios that make no sense.

My current build holds 3Kw of battery and power can be tuned up or down from 500w to 10kw. It's probably at its most efficient around the 4kw mark where most of the riding will be done and its nice to have the extra power if needed.
This may not make much sense to some but it should suit my requirements well.

When companies like Stromer use words like 'whopping' and 'game changing' to describe their 850wh battery, it just make me scratch my head a bit and when I then see the price, I go a bit dizzy.

 

[flecc]

My current build holds 3Kw of battery and power can be tuned up or down from 500w to 10kw. It's probably at its most efficient around the 4kw mark where most of the riding will be done and its nice to have the extra power if needed.
This may not make much sense to some but it should suit my requirements well.

Each to his own and I wouldn't want to stop you. However, I see no commercial future in that ratio of powers, 4 kW motor to 0.2 kW human addition, 95% to 5%. The human addition will be almost imperceptible in performance or consumption.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

A word from a future e-bike rider in the EU? My bicycle is my only means of transport (long sad story) and I live in a part of France with the worst public transport I have ever seen.

I have been researching for several weeks - it seems that the 25 kmh limit was pushed on the rest of the EU by the country which has the most bicycles. While 25 kmh is logical for them it isn't as logical when you live where I do. That is typical of lots of EU norms: they are dumbed down to the lowest denominator. The current EU pedelec law is similar to limiting cars to 50 kmh everywhere, including motorways. Now wouldn't that raise lots of hackles!

Assistance to 45 kmh on the open road is not unreasonable. Way less scary than freewheeling downhill at 80+ on a racing bike with 1970s tyres and rim brakes, trust me on that one! Outside of the Netherlands a bike that could be both a s-pedelec, on the open road, and a 25 kmh pedelec in town does have a place on the market. As easy to do as putting a button on the handlebars with a two position switch IMVHO.

Tony

 

[tillson]

I am a very conscientious person, who respects laws and people around me.

From my memory, that forest is privately owned but has public access doesn't it? In which case im afraid by riding your bike there you are breaking the law.

Come arrest me then. You are prob feeling threatened in case someone clocks onto the fact that you are selling terrible bikes at extortionate prices to the un-suspecting middle/late age person.

Not really the words or the attitude of a conscientious man who respects the law and the people around him.

Your last statement regarding KTM should be enough to tell people all that they need to know about your knowledge of electric bikes.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

My current build holds 3Kw of battery and power can be tuned up or down from 500w to 10kw. It's probably at its most efficient around the 4kw mark where most of the riding will be done and its nice to have the extra power if needed.
This may not make much sense to some but it should suit my requirements well.

This really doesn't sound like something that a "very conscientious person, who respects laws and people around them" should be riding around public woodland, where horse riders and families could be out for a country walk and not be expecting a silent "motorbike" to appear at any moment. But hey ho, what do I know

Why wouldn't you just buy an eMotorbike? Something like this would seem to be what you're looking for?

http://www.ktmfreeride-e.com/en

• 
  ENGINE
• ELECTRIC MOTOR: Permanent magnet synchronous motor in a disc armature design
• OUTPUT (RATED / MAXIMUM): 11 kW (15 hp) @ 5500 rpm (A1) /
  16 kW (22 hp) @ 4500 rpm
• TORQUE: 42 Nm from 0 rpm
• COOLINGLiquid cooled
• BATTERY: Lithium-ion KTM PowerPack
  (easily removable)
• VOLTAGE (RATED / MAXIMUM): 260 V / 300 V
• CAPACITY: 2600 Wh
• CHARGING TIME: 100%: 80min / 80%: 50min
• CHARGER RATED VOLTAGE: 230 V/50 Hz
• CHARGING CURRENT: Quick charging 13 A,
  normal charging 10 A

... should point out that is a rhetorical question, I suspect I know the reasons you don't want to buy a motorbike, and have to deal with all the rules and regulations that are attached to using powerful machines like this (on AND offroad)

 

[Stalkingcat]

Why wouldn't you just buy an eMotorbike? Something like this would seem to be what you're looking for?

Because the bike costs £10,299 and the battery lasts about three quarters of an hour of moderate use, 15 minutes of real beasting,.no thanks.

 

[trex]

Col, stalkingcat builds prototypes. Are you saying that he should not build prototypes?

This is the £1,000 bike he built and sold.
Read it, you'll understand the man.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Bike-set-at-3300w-72v-Infinion-controller-winter-tyres-AMAZING-/141563649145

 

[Stalkingcat]

This really doesn't sound like something that a "very conscientious person, who respects laws and people around them" should be riding around public woodland, where horse riders and family could be out for a stole and no be expecting a silent "motorbike" to appear at any moment. But hey ho, what do I know

Stop misquoting me, its getting childish.
Ive been riding at the privatly owed Matchams park for years. Lots of people take there road registered enduro bikes up there to use safely away from the general public.
My new build will be road legal.
Really, what happened guys?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Stop misquoting me, its getting childish.
Ive been riding at the privatly owed Matchams park for years. Lots of people take there road registered enduro bikes up there to use safely away from the general public.
My new build will be road legal.
Really, what happened guys?

No one is mis-quoting you!!! What you're saying is your bike isn't road legal... you've just said that.

You are comparing your bike to "ROAD LEGAL ENDURO BIKES" you do realise that yours is silent, and NOT road legal. Hence the big difference. Your's is not only not legal for use, where you ride it... its a prototype home build that hasn't been tested by anyone to certify that its safe to use in public.

And

Col, stalkingcat builds prototypes. Are you saying that he should not build prototypes?

I'm not saying he shouldn't build prototypes.

I'm saying 3 things.

1) he needs to understand the law BETTER, before posting saying its ok to use bike like his offroad - its neither legal nor good for ANYONE.

2) if he's trade, clearly he is... he should be paying the fees and declaring himself as such on here.

and most important of all.

3) illegal prototypes shouldn't be sold and used by the public in the public access forests of the UK.

and I'm afraid at £1000, that bike doesn't look very good value compared to what you can buy in the shops, which comes with safety certification and back up, and can be used legally.

edit....

and now I've just read the ebay listing.... To emphasise all the points that I used this case as an example. it clearly says in the listing.

"This is an off road machine, not legal for road use!!!! "

Which is a dangerous lack of understanding of the law. Its just as illegal offroad as on road. Hense bring me back to my first point about a lack of understanding of the law, by most of the people who are breaking it. The fact that some of these people are also traders is part of our serious concerns about the future sustainability of the industry in the UK.

 

[Stalkingcat]

No one is mis-quoting you!!! What you're saying is your bike isn't road legal... you've just said that.

Oh dear, how many times do i have to explain this?
The current hog powered bike that Im building will be road registered, taxed and insured. I will be able to ride up on the road up to my local privatly owed motorcross track and have a few hours fun before riding it back home.

 

[Stalkingcat]

If you wish to come up the the track in order to make a citizens arrest to all the kids having a day of run in a safe environment then please feel free.

 

[Stalkingcat]

illegal prototypes shouldn't be sold and used by the public in the public access forests of the UK.

When did I state that the bike is for use in forests?
My understanding of 'off road' has always meant either an enduro or mx track.