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Deleted member 4366
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At the moment S-pedelecs don't exist in the UK. It has to be a bicycle or a (let's call it) a moped.
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- Thread starter flecc
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I know, that's what I find confusing about this bike. If it's legal what is it? In practise it seems to be very similar to an S pedelec.
Something new, that may or may not find its own evolution path; I think at the moment moped is the closest name there is, if the UK don't accept S pedelecs, however it may have to have some changes to register it as such, not sure, ill need to look at it closer
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Yes lets close the chapter on that one, apologies KTM for my snappy initial response when you quoted me.
We were essentially talking about different areas which got whittled down to how the phrase 'off road' is used and perceived.
Yes, it is a full moped in the UK, falling into the L1e-B class of motor vehicle, just like all the 50 cc petrol mopeds that are on the roads. We do not have the S class in the UK, so the next step from pedelec is a moped.
That means registration and number plate, free VED (road tax), compulsory third party insurance, a suitable driving licence*, an approved BS motorcycle helmet, only use on the roads, so no cycle paths, pavements etc usage permitted.
* Full car driving licence from before February 2001, or a full motorcycle driving licence, or a full P class driving licence or a full AM driving licence. Otherwise a provisional licence must be obtained and a driving test to get a full AM licence in due course.
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it ought to be straightforward according to people who sell e-mopeds. You fill in the form, attach the certificate of conformity, pay the fees. After you get the registration document, you can get a number plate made and insurance. Some even offer to pre-register it and fix the number plate on your e-moped for £55. I can't see why there is so much aggros here, other than for £2k, you can get a very nice e-moped.
Okay I get all that. But again in practise it seems to be as near an S pedelec as makes no difference. Is this a back door way of having S pedelecs?
That's what the supplier would have us believe it seems, but of course that is false. Would anyone want to pedal a bike wearing a motorcycle helmet? Would they be prepared to leave this £3.6K bike in a motorcycle parking bay not locked to anything, since pavement parking in a bike stand would bring a ticket? What companies are offering insurance for such machines? Is the supplier telling buyers all this? We've already had one company previously misleading customers about such bikes.
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It has to be type approved to be registered in the UK, and that means some specific requirements that many S class e-bikes don't meet.
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This is a copy and paste from a guy who passed his bike through EU (German) regs
Indeed it´s a difficult task to get the bike approved.
So many details have to be taken into consideration.
This is just a small list of the points that had to be taken care of:
1. Chain guard around the radius where the cranks rotate.
2. Detailed information about the battery. ( Cell type, manufacturer, Kw/h and voltage )
3. Controller manufacturer ( Technical data )
4. Industrial type connectors ( Waterproof automotive types )
5. Tail and Headlight with E-approval. ( I used LED types to prolong battery live )
6. Electric Horn
7. License plate holder
8. Rear view mirrors.
9. Disc brakes with visible oil reservoir on the brake levers
10. ECE R100 approval ( This is damn tough and costs a small fortune if you plan to manufacture in series )
11. Details about the suspension
12. The bicycle tires had to be discarded. I´m using 18 * 3.00 inches Heidenau tires. The bikes handling improved dramatically.
Feels so secure and flats are now a thing of the past.
13. A light ( Green LED ) that shows the rider when the throttle is armed and ready.
14. Speed limit of 45 Km/h. Has to be tamper proof!
15. A self retracting kickstand is a must have!
16. This is not necessary but i did it anyways for security reasons. An hydraulic pressure switch in the brake hose turns on the rear brake light when the lever is pulled.
17. A rear reflector must be installed.
18. The license plate has to be illuminated.
19. The disc brake system is tested with a decelerator that is bolted to the bike and measures the meters per second the brakes have in stopping power. This test has to be repeated 10 times without any fading!
Indeed it´s a difficult task to get the bike approved.
So many details have to be taken into consideration.
This is just a small list of the points that had to be taken care of:
1. Chain guard around the radius where the cranks rotate.
2. Detailed information about the battery. ( Cell type, manufacturer, Kw/h and voltage )
3. Controller manufacturer ( Technical data )
4. Industrial type connectors ( Waterproof automotive types )
5. Tail and Headlight with E-approval. ( I used LED types to prolong battery live )
6. Electric Horn
7. License plate holder
8. Rear view mirrors.
9. Disc brakes with visible oil reservoir on the brake levers
10. ECE R100 approval ( This is damn tough and costs a small fortune if you plan to manufacture in series )
11. Details about the suspension
12. The bicycle tires had to be discarded. I´m using 18 * 3.00 inches Heidenau tires. The bikes handling improved dramatically.
13. A light ( Green LED ) that shows the rider when the throttle is armed and ready.
14. Speed limit of 45 Km/h. Has to be tamper proof!
15. A self retracting kickstand is a must have!
16. This is not necessary but i did it anyways for security reasons. An hydraulic pressure switch in the brake hose turns on the rear brake light when the lever is pulled.
17. A rear reflector must be installed.
18. The license plate has to be illuminated.
19. The disc brake system is tested with a decelerator that is bolted to the bike and measures the meters per second the brakes have in stopping power. This test has to be repeated 10 times without any fading!
The only difference is in the helmet requirement and parking in pedal cycle spots then? S pedelecs need insurance in Germany but no licence I think. They would be allowed to park with bikes but of course can't use cycle paths which normal pedelecs can.
The helmet is not a complete deal breaker. Retro pudding basin helmets are still legal as far as I know, as are old style peaked scooter helmets. It might be possible to buy something with more ventilation with conforms to the standards if these bikes became more common too. In the winter they would be fine and I wouldn't mind looking like Geoff Duke on his Manx Norton.
The certificate of conformity with S class bikes isn't a moped one though. That's how 50cycles came unstuck, thinking it would allow registration in the UK of their S class Kalkhoffs.
That is why there is do much aggro in here on this subject, it's about people being misled with false information.
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Or a deerstalker helmet (to the correct British Standard) like wot I have for my 1984 Puch Maxi moped
Yes, that is the usage difference, and the need for a driving licence in the UK. Remember anyone passing a car test over the last 14 years won't be qualified, so that's large numbers needing to have L plates. That should be fun, trying to fit L plates on front and rear of a bike as well as a rear number plate in a way that complies!
The S class to moped bike difference is a very different matter though, see Stalking Cats post on this link.
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there are precedents with regard to registration and insurance for e-mopeds.
The bike is Dichao FT, imported since 2010, insurance £90 a year by bikesure.co.uk
I've seen plenty of examples of Chinese e-mopeds with certificate of conformity. There is nothing to stop Kalkhoff to get a CoC for L1e-A
The bike is Dichao FT, imported since 2010, insurance £90 a year by bikesure.co.uk
I've seen plenty of examples of Chinese e-mopeds with certificate of conformity. There is nothing to stop Kalkhoff to get a CoC for L1e-A
Sorry, but this shows you are not understanding Trex.
L1e-A is for an ebike up to 1000 watts but restricted to 25 kph (15.5 mph) formerly the Low Powered Moped class, not for any S class e-bike. In the UK as I've posted umpteen times, that requires L1e-B, full moped classification for type approval because of it's assist speed capability.
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D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
I don't get why everybody is saying things like this. Nobody is trying to con anybody. The Stromer is distributed and sold by Thomos. You remember Thomos mopeds. That's what they sell. You go in the shop and buy them. They don't have to lecture you in the laws. People that go in a motorbike shop generally know what the laws are, but I'm sure they'll explain if you're unsure. You don't have to do any complicated registation. You ride it out of the shop with a number plate. That's what happens when you buy a motorbike from a motorbike shop. Jeez! You guys are driving nuts how you can make something so simple into something complicated.
Regarding the helmets, I've been riding motor bikes ever since they introduced the helmet law. I've probably done more than a million miles on one. Even though I've been stopped by the police loads of times, nobody ever checked to see if my helmet had the correct label in it. Do you really think that they'd care what type of helmet you wore as long as it didn't look like a stupid cycle one that many of us wouldn't be seen dead wearing one?
I often park my motorbike on the pavement tied to a lamppost. As long as you don't block anyone, nobody cares. I never had anybody complain in 46 years of doing it. You're all just trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Even if somebody is the type to complain about a Honda Fireblade on the pavement, do you really think that they would even notice that a bicycle had a number plate on the back, let alone understand the significance? Please try and jump into the real world.
sorry, I meant anyone wanting to build an s-pedelec only has to get a CoC for L1e-B same as the Dichao FT. I saw one second hand on gumtree for £400
http://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/2012-electric-moped-bike-scooter-dichao-ft2000-saiting-ego-street-scoota/1089967834
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