Bike Europe draws attention to illegal tuning kits

[Deleted member 4366]

The Stromer is just like any other quality ebike. It has lights, mudguards and a small mirror. Indicators are not required on a motorcycle. Have a look at their websiteto see what it's like. We don't need to worry about the hows and the whatfors. The point is that you can buy it from the shop registered with a number plate. You have to wear a helmet. Big deal. Most of us do anyway.

 

[RobF]

Presumably to ride the Stromer you would have to wear a motorcycle helmet, as opposed to a lightweight bread basket or snowboarding type.

 

[flecc]

The Stromer is just like any other quality ebike. It has lights, mudguards and a small mirror. Indicators are not required on a motorcycle. Have a look at their websiteto see what it's like. We don't need to worry about the hows and the whatfors. The point is that you can buy it from the shop registered with a number plate. You have to wear a helmet. Big deal. Most of us do anyway.

But as implied, we really do need to worry about the whys and wherefores. A motorcycle helmet and third party insurance is needed in the UK for compliance and it cannot be used on cyclepaths, shared paths, bridleways, Sustrans routes or left in cycle parking facilities. Also a driving licence is necessary for anyone not already qualified. At the Stromer's price I wouldn't be too happy leaving it in a motorcycle bay not locked to anything. During illegal use or parking, the number plate is a giveaway to officialdom, so I bet it wouldn't take long before a traffic officer spotted a cycle helmeted rider on a number plated machine and pulled over the rider for booking.

Either the UK customer puts up with all of those restrictions or they use it illegally with the accompanying risks. I take no pleasure in this situation, I wish we had the S class.
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[Croxden]

I wish this topic would cease.

 

[flecc]

I wish this topic would cease.

Why? This thread is titled as being about illegal use of e-bikes so you don't have to enter and read it.
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[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The Stromer is just like any other quality ebike. It has lights, mudguards and a small mirror. Indicators are not required on a motorcycle. Have a look at their websiteto see what it's like. We don't need to worry about the hows and the whatfors. The point is that you can buy it from the shop registered with a number plate. You have to wear a helmet. Big deal. Most of us do anyway.

Thanks for the extra detail Dave... personally like Flecc, I am also interested in the details, as I'm really trying to work out a way we can sell these sPedelecs without putting our dealers and end customers at risk. I'll have a look into what Stromer are doing and report back, because everything we've looked at.... means if you want to use them legally in the UK, you have to do this to them.

It was actually a bike you drew to our attention in this thread.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/fast-legal-bike.19861/

I can't see why this guy is having to go to all this trouble, if you're saying Stromer don't have to? I think Stromer aren't doing things correctly and are mis-informing their customers, but I would love to be proved incorrect on that matter.

 

[RobF]

I like the Stromer, but two things have put me off.

The price, and too many reports of unreliability of the electrics.

They can charge what they like, but the product should be top quality.

Stromer is a BMC brand, so there is big bike company back up.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Come arrest me then. You are prob feeling threatened in case someone clocks onto the fact that you are selling terrible bikes at extortionate prices to the un-suspecting middle/late age person.

blimey I nip out for a couple of hours and come back to this

sorry if I seem to have wound you up, it wasn't my intention. I used your post as an example to defend a point I made earlier in this thread about a lack of understanding about what is and isn't actually legal from a high % of the people who are actually breaking the law.

Much as it upsets you, I think you've proved my point. What you are doing is illegal, and whilst you and I might not agree with the law (I'd love to be selling our sPedelec bikes, or putting dongles on our bikes) we have to respect it, otherwise risk putting in jeopardy the growth of eBikes generally and certainly their access to shared spaces off-road which is my main (selfish) concern because I'm a mountain biker at heart.

 

[Stalkingcat]

sorry if I seem to have wound you up, it wasn't my intention

Its ok lets shake hands, we are both concerned about the legalities but with regard to different categories I think.

I can't see why this guy is having to go to all this trouble, if you're saying Stromer don't have to? I think Stromer aren't doing things correctly and are mis-informing their customers, but I would love to be proved incorrect on that matter.

The guy in reference is a good friend of mine. His builds are a lot more powerful than the Spedelec regulations allow.

 

[EddiePJ]

You are prob feeling threatened in case someone clocks onto the fact that you are selling terrible bikes at extortionate prices to the un-suspecting middle/late age person.

I'm both middle aged, own a KTM product, and ask that you fully explain the above statement.




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[Stalkingcat]

It sort of explains itself I think.
Low powered ebikes are pretty cheap to build as the motor doesn't need to be up to much and nor does the battery or the bike itself.
They look the part and look like a neat package for a pedelec Its just for the same money, a bike with 5 times the performance and capabilities could be built. Saying that I do understand that most aren't interested in 'building' their bikes and there are costs involved with 'brand' bikes, middlemen, distributors, back up service, advertising and initial tooling investment etc.
i suppose that I'm just not the sort who would go and buy a brand new car but have nothing against those that do.

 

[oldtom]

The thread title may change but each time this subject comes up and this must be the umpteenth time, just in the last two or three years, I try to see the arguments for EAPCs faster and/or more powerful than existing legislation allows.

Each time, I come back with the same conclusion: Why can't people simply accept EAPCS for what they are? i.e. bicycles with the added bonus of a limited amount of electrical assistance for those who can ride bikes but need a little help.

For those who require greater speed or more power, there is a fantastic choice of two-wheeled machines ranging through mopeds and scooters, both ICE-powered and electrically-driven, all the way to massively powerful motor-cycles. All this crap that some people come out with about only using their illegal machines on private land is just a load of old cobblers with perhaps the odd exception. Any place to which the general public has access is out of bounds to motorised transport unless expressly permitted so, while cycling may well be allowed, non-compliant EAPCs are not.

With the passage of time and technological improvements, EAPCs available in the UK market have improved beyond measure to a point now where we can buy perfectly legal machines for less than £1K which will carry 100Kg riders up just about any hill with only a little pedal power. That those machines can also do 35+ miles on a 'tankful' must seem like bicycle utopia to those who bought into the premise of assisted cycling more than a decade ago.

I occasionally look into that other but more international electric bike forum just to see what the latest nutter has invented in his shed. Frankly, I wish those who like to pontificate on this forum about 60mph machines and the like would restrict themselves to that other forum. We can all look in there from time to time if we should feel the need to read about the ridiculous.

It's all been done before but still there are some who try to re-invent the wheel. I have no difficulty with people 'pushing the envelope' in an attempt to extract every last drop of available power from the paradigm set down in pan-European legislation but I do get a little p'd off with idiots who couldn't pedal any bicycle at much more than 20 mph...ish reporting here that their contraption is good for 40-50-60+ mph. For me, those people just don't get it and need to grow up a little......no, cancel that; it's a lot!

Tom

 

[Stalkingcat]

Tom. I was posting on a thread for high powered bikes and just saw that I had been quoted on this thread thus got sucked into a completely different sector of ebikes.

I do get a little p'd off with idiots who couldn't pedal any bicycle at much more than 20 mph...ish reporting here that their contraption is good for 40-50-60+ mph. For me, those people just don't get it and need to grow up a little......no, cancel that; it's a lot!

Why? its nothing about being immature. The bikes that I'm talking about will be fully road legal 50-60 mph machines, what's wrong with that?

Why is someone who cant pedal a bike at more than 20mph an idiot Tom?

 

[Stalkingcat]

Anyhow, I'm off back to my corner as most on this thread already seem to have perfect machines for their needs, so ride and enjoy
I see the ICE as being almost a thing of the past within the next 5 years, so am more interested in that side of things and the exciting possibilities ahead.

 

[Artstu]

I wasn't sure what an ICE bike was, so Google came up with this

 

[Stalkingcat]

hehe, that bike I like, Internal combustion engine. noisy,inefficient and polluting.

 

[oldtom]

Stalkingcat, my dictionary reckons an idiot is a stupid person or a person of low intelligence. That, in itself, probably depicts the kind of person who comes through the education system unable to understand apostrophe usage and doesn't edit posts made on websites - 'inmate'?

Equally, in my view, not having a grasp of irony should disbar such people from websites in the public domain but I guess you probably simply didn't like my piece and felt an overwhelming need to retaliate at what you saw as a slight against you.

I'm afraid you have brought nothing new to the table, as it were, on this topic but I'm sure you will find all sorts of reasons to justify why you think your ideas are useful when multi-million pound international companies seem unable or unwilling to provide the kind of machine that might suit you.

KTM entered the UK market fairly late in the day but they have produced some decent EAPCs at premium prices. Your comment about their pricing being extortionate, I find, somewhat insulting. You might wish to look up that word also the word, 'exorbitant' in a dictionary and consider that a large number of your fellow citizens, many of whom read these pages and own KTM bikes, have decided the asking price is reasonable. You insult those people as well as KTM.

Tom

 

[Stalkingcat]

So you've called me immature because I wish to build and ride a legal road going electric bike.
You've called me an idiot because one of the keys on my laptop doesn't always work, sometimes causing a spelling mistake.
and you've called me an idiot because you 'just know' that my legs are incapable of riding up to 20mph.
Then you feel like I've insulted people because I think that their bikes are over priced.
Many people have built the sorts of machines that I am interested in, me included.

 

[flecc]

I see the ICE as being almost a thing of the past within the next 5 years

You have to be kidding of course, internal combustion engines will still be providing personal transport for people in 50 years and more. There'll be more hybrids and public transport will extend its scope, but batteries will still prevent e-vehicles taking over completely.

Just as your forebears did in past decades, in ten or twenty years time you'll be looking at batteries that are little advanced on today's and wondering what went wrong. Where mankind's progress is concerned, batteries are the exception that prove the rule!
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[D8ve]

So you've called me immature because I wish to build and ride a legal road going electric bike.
You've called me an idiot because one of the keys on my laptop doesn't always work, sometimes causing a spelling mistake.
and you've called me an idiot because you 'just know' that my legs are incapable of riding up to 20mph.
Then you feel like I've insulted people because I think that their bikes are over priced.
Many people have built the sorts of machines that I am interested in, me included.

To me you have arrived from nowhere. Then put up some provocative statements. You have had to defend and explain a high percentage of your posts. Suggested that you are comercial in intent but don't show a trade signature. You have made some good points but overall acted like a troll and provided a high level of tension to the thread.
There is a high level of knowledge here, please don't insult the other users.

I for one respect and belive the KTM is value for there market user. As is woosh and most of the other dealers on here.