Battery life

[guerney]

One has to remember the charge and discharge voltage is totally different then li-on/Li-po but pretty much bullet proof safety wise.

It remains to be seen whether insurance companies allow for the distinction - for profit's sake, it makes more sense for them to tar all batteries containing lithium with the same brush. I guess we'll have to see how this worrying anti-lithium ion battery movement develops.

 

[WheezyRider]

We need to swap from ICE vehicles to EVs, but there is too much of an assumption that all problems, congestion, pollution etc will go away simply by electrification. I think this is the point Nealh was trying to make. There needs to be an overall reduction in car use, EV or ICE. A traffic jam of EVs is still a traffic jam. If I get close passed by an EV, it's not suddenly ok as it's not ICE powered. If all ICE vehicles are replaced by EVs, EVs will still kill about 5 people every day on UK roads and seriously injure many more. EVs will still be parked on pavements. EVs will still produce brake dust and nanoparticles from tyres. EVs will still need a lot of resources to produce. EVs will still need to be powered from fossil fuels for a long time into the future (more efficient use of that energy than ICE systems, but still not ideal).

So there are still loads of issues associated with vehicles of such a size and weight to all too often shift around 1 person less than 5 miles.

Using the potential risk of battery fires as a reason to say EVs are no good is not a sensible argument. There are issues, but they can be made safer and it ignores the relative risks associated with other fuels.

 

[guerney]

 

[Nealh]

For my moli cell battery I made this year for the UTE , 12s 8400mah the cells cost me approx. £128.
The LFP cells below are £145 if genuine and would give me 44v/14s x 12000mah so better value for £££ ? But the unknown is I no little about LFP cell brands.

The weight would have been by far much heavier though one could have made 2 packs consisting of 14s 1p x 44v/6000mah .
I think LFP will be back on the board for some future possible builds.
They would be ideal for trailer carrying with a longer supply cable or for a trike /quad type ebike.

Weight wise they are approx. 3x heavier per cell then 18650 and approx. 2.25 x heavier then 21700.
How ever a 44v/6000mah battery would weigh much the same as my 44v/8400mah battery of moli's.


3.2V 32700 6000mAh 3.3V LiFePO4 Rechargeable Lithium Battery Cell plastic holder | eBay

 

[Nealh]

With the differing chemistry one has to remember the series count differs.
For LFP 24v becomes 8s & not 7s.
36v becomes 12s & not 10s.
44v becomes 14s & not 12s .
48v becomes 16s & not 13s.
Though if one was using cells like the 32700 one could technically use 15 cells in series for an exact 48v nominal.

LFP is still a lithium battery except the chem is safer and less dense pers cell size, LFP is lithum ferrous phospate . Like other chems they can short circuit but the density and any thermal runaway means thay won't catch fire.

Like any other chem one still needs to equip the pack with a bms for charge/discharge.

 

[guerney]

For my moli cell battery I made this year for the UTE , 12s 8400mah the cells cost me approx. £128.
The LFP cells below are £145 if genuine and would give me 44v/14s x 12000mah so better value for £££ ? But the unknown is I no little about LFP cell brands.

The weight would have been by far much heavier though one could have made 2 packs consisting of 14s 1p x 44v/6000mah .
I think LFP will be back on the board for some future possible builds.
They would be ideal for trailer carrying with a longer supply cable or for a trike /quad type ebike.

Weight wise they are approx. 3x heavier per cell then 18650 and approx. 2.25 x heavier then 21700.
How ever a 44v/6000mah a battery would weigh much the same as my 44v/8400mah battery of moli's.


3.2V 32700 6000mAh 3.3V LiFePO4 Rechargeable Lithium Battery Cell plastic holder | eBay

View attachment 49733

If they're less likely to burn my house down, I may even try a solderless battery pack building kit, such as one of VRUZEND's:

VRUZEND – Battery building made simple

No more spot welding… and no more soldering either! VRUZEND lithium battery building kits were designed to solve that problem. The plastic end caps slip tightly over the end of the most common lithium battery cell format, the 18650 cell. They can be snapped together like Lego™ bricks to create...

vruzend.co.uk

If a cell within a LiFePO4 battery pack fails, will replacing that cell with another of similar characteristics, cause the entire pack to burst into flames?

 

[flecc]

Where I do disagree with you is that if you really want to actually help the planet instead of pretending to be "doing your bit", why don't you just get rid of your car altogether

As someone who cycled over 70 years, including trailer transport, I'm not guilty of not doing my bit. I could bore you to death with all I've done in that way, but suffice it to say that for most of my thirty years of retirement my cars were doing around 400 miles a year, my unassisted bicycles up to 5000 miles a year.

Also see this link

Due to age, (86) and heart trouble I can no longer cycle so only walk shorter distances or drive, but again do what I can by driving electric. Another example of my long term environmental credentials is that I had the gas including the meter removed from my property in 1970. The government is hoping to start doing similar in 2025, showing how far ahead I was.

That your supplier claims to be "green" is crap. Your power is ported into the same energy grid as everyone else; "offsetting" is questionable.

Nonsense, power in, power out.

I'm using green power that goes into the grid instead of an oil product from a refinery.
.

 

[soundwave]

 

[Nealh]

Ten of Top LFP manufacturers are china companies.
CATL.
LG chem china.
Lishen (tianjin).
BAK.
Eve.
Are the five some of us may of heard of, the others being.

BYD.
Guoxuan.
Desay.
AVIC.
Funeng.

The drive away from LFP was driven by higher density & lighter lithium cells but now with safety being a factor , LFP is or appears to be back in the spot light and the weight handicap not so important for large EV's.

 

[cyclebuddy]

As someone who cycled over 70 years, including trailer transport, I'm not guilty of not doing my bit.

Yes, I know. I was in truth making a wider point. How much C02 was created scrapping your previous car and making your new Nissan Leaf?

EDIT: How do you justify that doing just 400 miles a year?

I'm using green power that goes into the grid instead of an oil product from a refinery.

Thank you for supporting/plumping-up my Pension. It's already paying handsomely.

 

[flecc]

There needs to be an overall reduction in car use, EV or ICE.

Agreed, but EVs are still very much better than ic vehicles. I say that as someone living in a city where many are being prematurely killed by exhaust pollution and we've had our first recorded death of a child due to that.

Forget tyre and brake pollution of EVs, that is proven bunkum:

Their particulates are far too large to be damaging to the lungs in the way IC fuel's microscopic particulates are.

Most EV braking is done by the motor regenerating into the battery. As a result and to the dismay of the motor trade, their brake pads seem to last and last.

As for the tyre wear pollution issue, that really is silly. Think in volumetric terms, less than 10 litres of rubber in the few millimetres of tread that wears off. My tyres will last a mean of 30,000 miles. An ic car over that mileage will use probably around 4000 litres of fuel.

How could 10 litres of rubber produce as much pollutant as 4000 litres of petrol or diesel? It couldn't of course, and as said, what it does produce is far less damaging anyway.
.

 

[flecc]

Yes, I know. I was in truth making a wider point. How much C02 was created scrapping your previous car and making your new Nissan Leaf?

Previous car none at all. The new owner is happily driving it.

Thank you for supporting/plumping-up my Pension. It's already paying handsomely.

I'm pleased that my largesse is benefitting you,
just as it is benefitting the whole planet and the rest of the 8 billion people on it.
.

 

[cyclebuddy]

The new owner is happily driving it.

It gets scrapped at some point. The energy used scrapping any vehicle (petrol, diesel or EV) and creating a new vehicle just isn't justified by any measure, especially when you're just driving 400 miles a year.

just as it is benefitting the whole planet and the rest of the 8 billion people on it.

In all honesty, that train of thinking is exactly what the marketers want you to believe. Rock on my friend. I'm making money out of your misguided foolishness. Yes, there is a problem, and yes, there is work to do.

But if you're buying an EV to do a pitiful 400 miles a year in an EV when an old wreck of a petrol car OVERALL would create less C02, go on believing.

 

[flecc]

But if you're buying an EV to do a pitiful 400 miles a year in an EV when an old wreck of a petrol car OVERALL would create less C02, go on believing.

You should read my posts properly, I'm not using an EV to do 400 miles a year. Thirty two years ago when I retired there weren't any EVs, the car that only did 400 miles a year for very many years was a small ic one, kept for just a small number of much longer journeys. It used to stand idle in my garage often for three months between uses, virtually all my travel being by cycling as already said.

I bought my EV early in 2018 to do more like 4000 miles a year, now I'm cycling no longer. It replaced two 4 x 4s I'd previously been using to do environmental work in the countryside in retirement, so a huge environmental difference.

Due to my living on while all my relatives and friends persist in dying, my EV mileage is lower now, but I already have the car and can't cycle any more so it's justified.

What isn't justified are your challenges. You have little knowledge of me and my circumstances yet you make totally unfounded assumptions.

As much as it grieves you EVs are taking over on the roads. What you don't seem to realise is that there will be far fewer of them, a deliberate strategy which you, like most, seem not to have realised.

That is why they are a good thing overall and why WheezyRider was wrong in this post to say they are just as bad numerically.
.

 

[soundwave]

and you can pay £200 a month for it to drive its self plus all the other bits you will have to pay for to use like heated seats ect ect.

Full Self-Driving Capability Subscriptions | Tesla Support

If you have not already purchased FSD capability and your vehicle has FSD computer 3.0 or above, you can subscribe to FSD capability from the Tesla app. Learn more about FSD capability subscription.

www.tesla.com

you cant do that with ice money makes the world go round they dont give a crap about no planet it is just used as a excuse to force ppl to buy them and lobby the governments to get there way.

bosch has made my bike obsolete as the new smart frame batts wont work with my motor and if there was no 3rd party batts it would be a boat anchor.

they will just do the same to electric cars and force you to buy another one imo every year like a new i phone with a bit better cam and more storage for porn hub vids

and i have never had a driving license and the only thing i bought is now a door stop as not supported any more.

at least when you scrap a horse you can turn it in to burgers

 

[cyclebuddy]

You should read my posts properly, I'm not using an EV to do 400 miles a year...

What isn't justified are your challenges. You have little knowledge of me and my circumstances yet you make totally unfounded assumptions.

What you stated in post #187:

...but suffice it to say that for most of my thirty years of retirement my cars were doing around 400 miles a year...

And then you state:

I say that as someone living in a city...

So get on a bus or a train (strikes aside). I too live in a city. It takes a massive change of thinking and I'll admit it's an education. I got rid of my car last month and now take I take a taxi, get on a bus or train and choose to live without a car.

You're just desperately trying to justify your buying an EV while claiming to be environmentally conscious. If that were truly the case, living in a city as you do, you'd make best use of public transport. Personally, I'm not buying your rationale.

 

[guerney]

Are the five some of us may of heard of, the others being.

BYD.
Guoxuan.
Desay.
AVIC.
Funeng.

I'll be voting with my wallet for BYD's safer, less poisonous, easier to recycle sodium ion cells - 160w/kg is comparatively lower energy density, but they'll improve. I don't mind a larger and heavier battery, because I actually don't make any effort whatsoever when cycling (or pretending to [Thanks Bafang firmware!]).

 

[flecc]

What you stated in post #187:

As I said READ !

I said I bought the EV almost five years ago. I also said I retired 32 years ago.

In what way does that preclude my doing 400 miles a year for most of my retirement in previous cars? There was more explanatory detail in my posts, but as an anti car person you were so busy looking for fault you couldn't be bothered with it.

Drop the arrogance, as I said you know F-all about me.

I do use public transport when its suitable, when I've needed to go into Central London I use a four stage trip, Bus, Tram, Mainline train and Tube and never drive it.

But I'm in the fringe where public transport is often not up to the job, especially outward bound, so I choose to use a car to a limited degree now I'm no longer cycling the high mileages I used to be able to.

Thats my choice and my business for my present circumstances and not subject to your approval.
.

 

[cyclebuddy]

As I said READ !

I did. Why don't you?

We are actually singing from the same hymn sheet. Wake up!

 

[guerney]

Risk burning your house down charging a damaged powerbank to save spending £8 on a replacement ? I can see the Daily Mail headline already

It's usually in a pocket or rucksack, easy to keep an eye on and jettison in a hurry if/when necessary - it may yet exact revenge for being left for three weeks in heavy rain.... . Turns out, the reason why I was unable to take it apart completely, is because they applied glue under the cell pack before screwing the two sides of the unit together. The other side has the charging circuitboard, and what was preventing me from prising it open further, were the very short wires connecting the cell pack to the circuitboard. I could have softened the glue under the cells using a hot air gun for a very thorough inspection, but I reckon this power bank is safe to use, so won't explore it's inner workings.