Battery Fires

[saneagle]

yes no one advised me , when the battery was nearly charged as Mathew instructed , I realised we now had voltage at the secondary terminal s that go to the battery , whilst still not getting any voltage at the first input and discharge terminals.

I was sitting with it when put the main charger on just for a few minutes, then heard the crack , turned it off and disconnected it .
and monitoring the voltage the set that fused or blew was at 4.5V so just one volt higher than the rest.

but as the charge was still going into the BMS it must be knackard ?

Hence my questions on how to make a safe place to do this sort of thing if something goes wrong.

or how is it supposed to be done in a commercial battery repair shop ?

That said any battery charging is a risk then even expensive branded things so if we think about Risk Assesment something I have done many times then really do we want to charge any battery in our homes unattended without some sort of emergency procedures in place ?

After all as soon as One goes out on a bike or car there is risk.

One of the other posts regarding getting round £500 quid Carrera battery handshake does work .

Attached is a motor test set using KT , Suntours combination , which I whished I had set up a few days ago .

I just had to refund a guy on e bay for for a Suntour motor and wheel which I could not test after buying a job lot of ex display bikes

this one works fine with a throttle .

but I would still like to put an after market BMS in this battery as I can no longer sell it on e bay .

I have always liked playing with fire !

taking all your good advise on board guys thanks , but I will be learning how to build batteries and fix other components I enjoy the challenge.

hope you will still help ?

I do it on my living room table. It's safe as long as you use low current and don't rush, you keep all metal away from it so that you can't make an accidental short, and you check the cells regularly as you go along to make sure nothing untoward is happening.

 

[StuartsProjects]

really do we want to charge any battery in our homes unattended without some sort of emergency procedures in place ?

I would not charge a e-Bike battery in my house, end of.

And definitely not unattended.

I once had a moped, I did not store that in the house or bring it into the house to fill it with petrol.

 

[chris_n]

Somebody explained to him exactly how to balance individual cells and how to monitor them so that there would be no issues. There's nothing wrong with that. You can't blame whoever that was for the guy ignoring the advice and doing his own thing.

It's basically the same as somebody asking how to store their battery. They'd be advised to keep it in a cool stable situation, but instead, they put it in an oven and it blew up when somebody turned on the oven to pre-heat it for the Sunday roast. Your argument is that nobody should have advised him to store it in case he ignored the advice and did his own thing. Storing batteries is dangerous if you don't do it right, so is using one, and so is having one. Maybe we should advise everyone not to get an ebike because they're dangerous. In fact never mind owning an ebike, riding any bike is complicated and dangerous if you don't get it right, so keep away from them. Is that it?

I'm not blaming anyone but there have been many posts on here as well as other places that have stated you can charge with the BMS bypassed and probably all of them have carried a warning of 'low and slow and monitor'. Obviously if they then claim one cell bank went 'just one volt' too high and then talk about building a bomb then they clearly don't understand what they are doing and should desist before they injure someone.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

just so there’s is no misunderstanding the Carrera battery I am using to train on is for my own use not for sale I will go back to the post when I am ready to carefully dismantle it and look at repairing the short.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I must find out how the Solar Engineers re cell a battery in some one’s house wow that would be a big bang .

or they do not as it’s now not legal to install them in a house

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I don't. I don't charge at home and don't keep e-bike batteries at home.



Except when you sell repaired bikes, it is not you who is playing with fire.

Hi
I do not sell repaired bikes or batteries I break them and sell the parts .

I was only selling Carrera batteries as they are taking the michael expensive.

Although I do like YOSE kits they seem to me to be good quality and value for money.

But they will not tell me the BMS in the aftermarket Joycube model or where to buy it.

I might stop in China as I am transitioning there on my way home from Vietnam in February and get them copied

 

[matthewslack]

I must find out how the Solar Engineers re cell a battery in some one’s house wow that would be a big bang .

or they do not as it’s now not legal to install them in a house

I would be surprised if solar engineers were working at the individual cell level at all, let alone in someone's house.

Looking at *Bimble Solar's product range, I think most solar battery systems are LiFePO4, Lithium Iron Phosphate, not Li-ion, Lithium Ion. Much safer chemistry, somewhat cheaper, but heavier. Weight does not matter for static systems.

*other suppliers are available.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi Mathew
I have only heard of One company Project Solar who claimed they would re cell a battery one of the cheaper china brands that they used to fit in the lofts where ever possible.
I had a brief sales position with them until I realised they where back to 90s with there sales techniques and out and out exaggeration of the truth.
And very expensive compared to a top system like Solar Edge for instance.

Never really got to involved with the engineering side sales and survey’s was my remit ,although I did go to a few installer Road shows Solar Edge , we exhibited at The Everything Electric exhibition last year .

I just had a reply from The Lithium Shop E Bay with regards to the BMS on the Carrera Battery.

They need to know


L
Hi. You need a li-ion 10S bms. More than that I can't tell from the photos. Size will be critical, and you need the correct amperage output for the battery also. IT will be a bit tricky to fit and need some experience. Thanks.

” Playing with Fire “ was Tonge in cheek”

Seriously I have taken on board the concerns of the guys and the need to be very careful when I carefully dismantle the battery so I will do it in the garden on my workbench out there and I have good PPE face shield gloves ECT .

And will do a risk assessment.

Hope you are up for continuing with the post once I have time bit busy with work until after Christmas

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I'm not blaming anyone but there have been many posts on here as well as other places that have stated you can charge with the BMS bypassed and probably all of them have carried a warning of 'low and slow and monitor'. Obviously if they then claim one cell bank went 'just one volt' too high and then talk about building a bomb then they clearly don't understand what they are doing and should desist before they injure someone.

Again I am talking about a safe room , or box ie something that can be used in an emergency or charging unattended .

Not putting it in with the Turkey and roast Parsnips .

I could for-see some one making a safe charging box for batteries ie like an oven that cooks things but does not burn your house down , even a garage or garden fire can still burn your house down.

unless as said it would turn it into a bomb . It would not it would just force the door open first or with the aid of a fan it would definitely blow any noxious fumes out and up a Chimmney or vent that‘s what they are designed to do.

when I was in the Army Cadets on a trip to Dartmoor our very experienced ex para colour Sargent
Set the moor on fire just out side Prince town rushing to get the kettle on .

I was a couple of paces away from his camping stove which the wind blew over on a hill during a freak heat wave over Easter.

lucky we was all up wind as that fire took off before I could even stamp it out and did not stop until it reached a stream with the best efforts of our whole company and a scout troop trying to put it out. Lucky it reached the stream and was only grass that went up in seconds!
but a huge area before it burnt its self out

when I realised we had no chance of putting it out I filmed the rest of the lads using there sleeping bags and towels trying to beat it out .

So I suppose until some thing goes wrong we will all

CARRY ON CHARGING !!!

 

[soundwave]

the dog bowl survived fook knows where the cell went

 

[Nealh]

Balancing cells individually is fine if the user knows what they are doing, bypassing the BMS is necessary. However one needs to use low charge rates of 0.5 - 1a so it is time cosuming and one must monitor voltages.
Charging via the discharge on a 3 wire BMS is stupid and whoever carries it out gets what they get and risks damage or even worse , only one type of BMS is designed for discharge charging and that is a same port BMS.

 

[lenny]

CARRY ON CHARGING !!!