20mph speed limit -applies to bikes ?

[Kudoscycles]

Why Kudos (and others) will not join BEBA

The plug is fully justified and appropriate, I happily second the sentiment. The whole industry benefits from the work that BEBA does, so it's entirely reasonable to expect all those commercially involved in the industry to get involved in BEBA. I understand that there are some who don't like all the rulings that BEBA have made, but as with any political process, the most effective way to change that is from the inside.

The plug is fully justified and appropriate, I happily second the sentiment. The whole industry benefits from the work that BEBA does, so it's entirely reasonable to expect all those commercially involved in the industry to get involved in BEBA. I understand that there are some who don't like all the rulings that BEBA have made, but as with any political process, the most effective way to change that is from the inside.

Flecc,I would agree with your posting except I am not sure you have studied the BEBA Code of Practice which we are being asked to agree to,if it was just detail that we need to change but it is the whole basis upon which BEBA was established and the constraints that these Code of Practices put upon this industry that I cannot stomach.
The following is the BEBA Code of Practice copied from the BEBA website.

BEBA Manufacturer/Importer Membership Commitments





Members must agree to and be able to demonstrate that they:





1. Only make sales through dealers / retailers or directly to the end user through flagship stores and not exclusively online
This would eliminate Cyclamatic,Woosh,Burisch plus probably 10 others from BEBA membership,it is there to stop trading via the internet with its obvious price advantage and benefit those BEBA members who have set their business model via dealers,it is a restrictive practice which I just cannot agree to. Kudos is a free trading company who will trade by whatever means it considers appropriate,not be told by some self elected organisation as to how to distribute our product.




2. Manufacture or have the UK exclusive agency to a brand of electric bicycle
So if Kudos chooses to sell a product that we dont have exclusivity to,then we cannot sell that product-ridiculous.




3. Have an after sales support program available to all dealers
This is sensible business practice,we dont need to be BEBA members




4. Hold a full spare parts inventory to enable on-going support for product in the market
This is also sensible business practice,but so many importers do not hold spares stocks,many in the industry use Kudos spares to sort customer warranty problems




5. Not manufacture / distribute electric bikes that the BEBA board determine to be replicas
I just cannot understand how BEBA have the right to determine whether a competitors bike is a clone of another. The Woosh,Oxygen and Wisper bikes all have similar appearance-why not? I have been offered similar style bikes from at least 5 suppliers in China,its not my style so I am not interested but I dont see why BEBA should restrict my choice of what bike I sell-if copyright issues are involved we have courts to resolve such issues,not a trade body overeaching itself.




6. Only market models that meet the current legal requirements
What are the current legal requirements? Thats a very difficult question to answer,which has been discussed at length on this forum. What would be sensible is to insist that all BEBA importers produce bikes to EN15194-but do all current BEBA member's bikes meet EN15194?




7. Offer full technical training to retail outlets
This is sensible,but its not happening-talk to some of these retail outlets and its obvious that they dont have the knowledge to accept such training




8. Provide retailers with marketing materials
Agreed




9. Provide retailers with manuals for all bikes
Agreed




10. Provide full service literature
Agreed




11. Offer an effective complaints procedure to the end user
No business would survive for long without listening to complaints from its customers.







BEBA Retail members





Retail members should:





1. Stock at least one brand of electric bike from a member of BEBA
Why? Why can't they stock whatever bikes they choose,why does it have to be a BEBA members bike-I think this may be illegal under the competition act?




2. Be technically capable and have the facilities to maintain any electric bicycle they retail
Agreed




3. Hold or have immediate access to a full spare parts inventory to enable on-going support for product


in the market
Agreed




4. Commit to having at least one BEBA Key members electric bike in store for demo at all times
I would say that they should have a selection of ebikes of any marque available for demo but I dont see why these have to be BEBA members bikes. There are some beautiful bikes out there for sale by quality manufacturers and importers who choose not to be BEBA members,its all about freedom of choice.




5. Not retail electric bikes that the BEBA board determine to be replicas
Have dealt with this one already,this is restrictive practice by BEBA,it is not a court it has no legal right to determine what bikes a retailer sells.




6. Agree to PDI all electric bikes
Agreed but its not happening,I have several retailers who are BEBA members who get me to drop-ship most bikes direct to the customer. They cannot PDI the bikes because they never see them!




7. Be prepared to co operate with BEBA in resolving any customer dispute bought to the attention of


the BEBA board

I just cannot understand how any independent retailer would allow BEBA to intervene in any dispute between retailer and customer. If I was a retailer and BEBA tried to intervene they would be told very quickly to mind their own business.

BEBA stands for the British Electric Bike Association. If it is there to do a job on behalf of the British Electric Bike Industry then all well and good and I would be very supportive of its efforts but as long as these restrictive Code of Practicies exist,which clearly are of self interest I want nothing to do with it.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Wisper Bikes]

David..

What happened about the 'private person' class of member, did it fall on stony ground ?

Hi David, I still think it is a great idea. We will be making an important announcement in the next few weeks after the announcement we will discuss again.

All the best David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Flecc,I would agree with your posting except I am not sure you have studied the BEBA Code of Practice which we are being asked to agree to,if it was just detail that we need to change but it is the whole basis upon which BEBA was established and the constraints that these Code of Practices put upon this industry that I cannot stomach.
Dave
Kudoscycles

Hi Dave, please excuse me if I don't answer your post in full, but thanks for taking the time to consider each reason why you currently are unable to commit.

I accept and understand that there are some who are not capable of working within the BEBA guidelines, others who do not agree with them and a few that do not have the foresight to put the good of the EAPC industry above their own goals. However, I am one voice amongst many that truly believes BEBA is a good thing for the industry and has already achieved a great start. Without BEBA the throttle would not have a chance of being kept as an option in the UK, I am sure that you an others will take advantage of our hard work and we welcome you to do so, but please remember how the concession was achieved. The throttle retention (not yet ratified) was only one achievement out of many that are currently being worked upon, we will be making some more important announcements later in the year.

It is our aim to make BEBA accessible to as many as possible, a voice for the whole industry, and would certainly be delighted if you were to join in. To that end we would welcome the opportunity to discuss BEBA face to face with you and or any other business that currently is unable to commit. We honestly believe the industry would be stronger if all UK manufacturers, distributors and dealers worked as a team to promote electric bikes as a whole and forget individual brands for a moment. To that end we would be pleased to discuss how we could include you and the other brands you mention rather than cause a division within such a small industry. If our code of practice needs some work, than let's sit around a table and discuss how we can achieve this, keeping in mind of course that we need to have standards, standards that will give the electric bike buying public confidence in The Association and it's members.

Let's not make personalities and self interest an issue here, let's work together to make the electric bike industry as strong in the UK as it is in Europe to the benefit of all.

As always best regards

David

 

[flecc]

I wonder by 2016 when the proposed legislation comes into law, that it will be already obsolete, and out of touch with new developments, whether it be through DIY kits, or consumer demand for more progressive technological advancements, that will further perpetuate the culture of non-compliance that has already existed for quite some time? EN19154 will stand out for being the party poopers charter IMHO

Obsolescence isn't possible, simply because e-bikes are classed as bicycles, and bicycles and their riders are effectively at the limit of development/evolution. After all, the regulations are power and speed, and the meaning of either of those cannot advance, a Watt is a Watt and a mile-per-hour is a mile per hour.

Technological advancement will only affect motor vehicles which can benefit from them.

 

[jazper53]

What is the collective noun for a small self appointed exclusive club that actively excludes rather than unites: BEBA

 

[flecc]

I wonder by 2016 when the proposed legislation comes into law, that it will be already obsolete, and out of touch with new developments, whether it be through DIY kits, or consumer demand for more progressive technological advancements, that will further perpetuate the culture of non-compliance that has already existed for quite some time? EN19154 will stand out for being the party poopers charter IMHO

See reply to the duplicate on this link

 

[jazper53]

Obsolescence isn't possible, simply because e-bikes are classed as bicycles, and bicycles and their riders are effectively at the limit of development/evolution. After all, the regulations are power and speed, and the meaning of either of those cannot advance, a Watt is a Watt and a mile-per-hour is a mile per hour.

Technological advancement will only affect motor vehicles which can benefit from them.

Somewhat blinkered as the past uk law was obsolete due to non-compliance what will change in the future

 

[flecc]

Flecc,I would agree with your posting except I am not sure you have studied the BEBA Code of Practice which we are being asked to agree to,if it was just detail that we need to change but it is the whole basis upon which BEBA was established and the constraints that these Code of Practices put upon this industry that I cannot stomach.

I have seen it Dave and sympathise on some of the points you make, but not all, since your stance would allow most of the past and present failings in support to continue unaffected. Every trade body has a standard of compliance for membership and I'm sure many of those in other trade bodies disagree with some of the positions of their trade body. Indeed they sometimes conveniently forget/ignore them to some degree, and in turn their trade bodies show some tolerance. In your own post you have shown in point 6 that BEBA also show such tolerance in some cicumstances. In all rules and law, the adage including the phrase "obedience of the foolish and guidance of the wise" holds true.
.

 

[flecc]

Somewhat blinkered as the past uk law was obsolete due to non-compliance what will change in the future

Not in any way blinkered, just simple fact.

It wasn't technologically obsolete as I've clearly shown. It's only changed and changing due to a wish to harmonise with the EU, not for reasons of any technological advance, such a reason cannot exist.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Hi Dave, please excuse me if I don't answer your post in full, but thanks for taking the time to consider each reason why you currently are unable to commit.

I accept and understand that there are some who are not capable of working within the BEBA guidelines, others who do not agree with them and a few that do not have the foresight to put the good of the EAPC industry above their own goals. However, I am one voice amongst many that truly believes BEBA is a good thing for the industry and has already achieved a great start. Without BEBA the throttle would not have a chance of being kept as an option in the UK, I am sure that you an others will take advantage of our hard work and we welcome you to do so, but please remember how the concession was achieved. The throttle retention (not yet ratified) was only one achievement out of many that are currently being worked upon, we will be making some more important announcements later in the year.

It is our aim to make BEBA accessible to as many as possible, a voice for the whole industry, and would certainly be delighted if you were to join in. To that end we would welcome the opportunity to discuss BEBA face to face with you and or any other business that currently is unable to commit. We honestly believe the industry would be stronger if all UK manufacturers, distributors and dealers worked as a team to promote electric bikes as a whole and forget individual brands for a moment. To that end we would be pleased to discuss how we could include you and the other brands you mention rather than cause a division within such a small industry. If our code of practice needs some work, than let's sit around a table and discuss how we can achieve this, keeping in mind of course that we need to have standards, standards that will give the electric bike buying public confidence in The Association and it's members.

Let's not make personalities and self interest an issue here, let's work together to make the electric bike industry as strong in the UK as it is in Europe to the benefit of all.

As always best regards

David

It is our aim to make BEBA accessible to as many as possible, a voice for the whole industry, and would certainly be delighted if you were to join in. To that end we would welcome the opportunity to discuss BEBA face to face with you and or any other business that currently is unable to commit. We honestly believe the industry would be stronger if all UK manufacturers, distributors and dealers worked as a team to promote electric bikes as a whole and forget individual brands for a moment. To that end we would be pleased to discuss how we could include you and the other brands you mention rather than cause a division within such a small industry. If our code of practice needs some work, than let's sit around a table and discuss how we can achieve this, keeping in mind of course that we need to have standards, standards that will give the electric bike buying public confidence in The Association and it's members.

Let's not make personalities and self interest an issue here, let's work together to make the electric bike industry as strong in the UK as it is in Europe to the benefit of all.

As always best regards

David[/QUOTE]

First and foremost I must say I dont like trade bodies, which whilst at conception have clear aims to benefit the industry but always grow into self interest,within the motorsport industry the MIA(motorsport industries association) is a classic example.
Lets be honest so many of these codes of practice are as a result of personal clashes amongst bicycle importers,some of which have had very public airings-Wisper v Oxygen.
Has the BEBA membership reduced of late or is the website out of date,because there are only listed 3 retail members-E-bikes direct is not listed as a BEBA member but his website shows 'BEBA founder member'?
If I were a retailer of high priced electric bikes I am very supportive of the quality of the following bikes-AVE(Ebco),Storck(Strorck-Raddar),KTM(FLi Distribution),Haibike(Accel group),in each case note the importer is not a BEBA member. Under the terms of the retailers code of practice as part of BEBA,even if I offered for sale all of these brands I would not be offering a BEBA brand and therefore could not join BEBA as a retailer-that is ridiculous.
Companies such as Woosh,Burisch and Cyclamatic are doing a good job of satisfying the lower priced end of the market and yet none of these companies would be allowed to join BEBA because they direct sell from a single location,yet if Amazon sold 1 BEBA brand they would be allowed to join-that is ridiculous.
You state above quote'It is our aim to make BEBA accessible to as many as possible, a voice for the whole industry, and would certainly be delighted if you were to join in', but your codes of practice are achieving,as I have exampled above,exactly the opposite,you are alienating most of the e-bike industry and therefore is not 'a voice for the whole industry',it is in fact a voice for only a very small part of the industry.
As regards 'throttles' I know that some of the pedelecs buyers,particularly in the UK,demand throttles-I had one member on this forum who described a possible lack of a throttle on one of my bikes as a 'disaster'. Personally I think throttles are out of character with the principles of a pedelec,the idea is to have a means of transport which provides additional help up hills,the pedelec should still offer some exercise and a throttle definitely makes you lazy-but some customers will not buy a bike without a throttle so we have to provide them-it just seems a shame that we will be out of step with the rest of Europe,who seem to get by happily without throttles-for me I would be happy to sign up to EN15194 exactly the same as the rest of Europe and with no throttle.
Nobody can surely fault the work,most of it unpaid,that I am putting into the ebike industry. Our roadshows during April will bring this ebike concept to the people in parts of the UK where in the past they have been ignored. Our Redbridge 'Try an ebike day' is wholly funded by Kudos Cycles,no charge has been made on exhibitors or attendees,I wanted no obstacle for even the smallest of the ebike suppliers to attend the event,my estimate is over 500 pedelec testers will attend,it is full now for exhibitors.
I know you organised the centre of London e-bike event but at £700 it was expensive-the East of England rally,the Eden Project and the Bristol hillclimb are all free of charge events. There is a massive void in an exhibition/testing type of event in the north of England,somewhere between Manchester and Leeds,what about BEBA organising an event in that locality,I am sure we would alll be welcome up there. There are BEBA members up that way who could put in some effort. But the event must be available to all not just BEBA members and not expensive to exhibit or attend.
There are no clash of personalities,well certainly not from my viewpoint,but there is a clash of motives and aims,or at least the pathway to achieve those aims.
Tear up the BEBA codes of practice,they are not helpful in achieving wider BEBA membership.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Kudoscycles]

I have seen it Dave and sympathise on some of the points you make, but not all, since your stance would allow most of the past and present failings in support to continue unaffected. Every trade body has a standard of compliance for membership and I'm sure many of those in other trade bodies disagree with some of the positions of their trade body. Indeed they sometimes conveniently forget/ignore them to some degree, and in turn their trade bodies show some tolerance. In your own post you have shown in point 6 that BEBA also show such tolerance in some cicumstances. In all rules and law, the adage including the phrase "obedience of the foolish and guidance of the wise" holds true.
.

Tony,the quality standard for compliance could be EN15194,the standard is there already and it would be a good confidence boost to customers. It would be a bold statement.....ALL BEBA MEMBERS BIKES MEET EN15194 STANDARD....but it would also be very selfish of me because I think it would eliminate some existing BEBA members bikes. But EN15194 is coming anyway,whatever its form,so we might as well get used to it sooner rather than later.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Old_Dave]

EN15194 is coming anyway

That's the easy bit and there's oodles of time to get it right and let grandfather take care of the past.

The hard bit is for dealers who are retailing products (as road legal ) that neither fit the UK nor EU scheme of things.

Size of sympathy = . <---- very little

 

[flecc]

Tony,the quality standard for compliance could be EN15194,the standard is there already and it would be a good confidence boost to customers. It would be a bold statement.....ALL BEBA MEMBERS BIKES MEET EN15194 STANDARD....but it would also be very selfish of me because I think it would eliminate some existing BEBA members bikes. But EN15194 is coming anyway,whatever its form,so we might as well get used to it sooner rather than later.
Dave
Kudoscycles

I do take the same position on EN15194 as in Europe Dave, I've never accepted the argument that they are essential in Britain when e-biking has been so much more successful in mainland Europe since their throttle exclusion in 2003. Of course the British position on this is just like it is on cycling in general, that it's a sport/fitness biased pursuit, while mainland Europe sees cycling as primarily personal transport.

However, I see the advantage of an independent acting throttle for those disabled enough to prevent normal cycling, and since that is such a very large group of people, the benefit that BEBA has obtained is well worthwhile. As I've posted previously though, it would have been better as a measure for the disabled, not a universal one.

As you say, EN15194 is coming anyway, and with a high and ever increasing proportion of the e-bikes sold in recent years being non-throttle EU compliant pedelecs, I expect they will gradually become the norm. The impending arrival of low cost crank drive pedelec units designed and produced in China will help overcome the past high-price barrier that has impeded even more pedelec progress.

 

[flecc]

The hard bit is for dealers who are retailing products (as road legal ) that neither fit the UK nor EU scheme of things.

As of this thread, this is surely no longer the case Dave. The DfT has clearly stated that there will be no prosecution of 250 watt bikes, that there will be grandfather rights and that the intention is to legalise throttles under certain conditions.

This effectively makes safe the customers who buy 250 watt throttle controlled bikes, and the dealers have always been able to legally sell any e-bike regardless of compliance. However, I have no sympathy with the selling or buying of high power/high speed models where there is no intention that they are to be registered as mopeds.

 

[morphix]

Hi Jazper,

Type approval is like a detailed MOT test and is required by law if you are to use a motor vehicle on the public highway.

If you were to build your own car or motorbike you would need to obtain a single vehicle TA before you could legally use in on the public highway. When a manufacturer wants to sell a motor vehicle in the UK for use on the public highway it also has to be Type Approved but we can obtain a full TA which would cover as many of the same models (without change) as we sell.

For further information see Vehicle Type Approval

Best regards

David

David, if a manufacturer (or small business that converts bikes) sells e-bikes to the public obviously intended for use on the roads, is there any legal responsibility on manufacturers/bike builders at present to ensure the e-bikes meet the current legal guidelines?

If it's voluntary, how many manufacturers actually put their bike models through the test, and is it a costly and complicated business?

If it's neither compulsory nor voluntary at this stage, is the law likely to change and the industry likely to face regulation which will require mandatory compliance testing in future?

 

[morphix]

1. We will adopt the updated EN19154 regs in the UK. The updated regs are far more stringent than the existing 2009 EN15194 with particular concentration on safety, particularly wiring and batteries including vigorous tests on battery case safety.

2. Throttles to 25kph will be allowed as long as EAPCs with throttles have been officially Type Approved through the VCA. Such EAPCs are currently referred to as Electric Bikes.

How will these new safety regulation on batteries and wiring effect DIY'ers and small conversion businesses? Will there just be some simple guidelines to follow, or will installations need to be checked by qualified personnel and signed off as being electrically safe?

3. Electric Bikes with a throttle and Type Approval that otherwise conform to EN15194 will be considered in the UK as EAPCs in law, therefore road license, insurance and helmet helmet wearing will not be compulsory. Such bikes can be ridden on public roads legally by anyone over the age of 14.

This is somewhat confusing. Are you saying bikes with a throttle will need special Type Approval, or will all e-bikes require Type Approval to ensure they meet compliance? If so, is this only relevant to manufacturers of e-bikes, or will it also apply to anyone building or converting an e-bike themselves after the new law comes into effect?

Will bikes that meet the above criteria be allowed to be ridden on paths and cycle lanes, and still fully classed as bicycles in law?

4. The current EN definitions with regard to motor power will remain in force.


5. "Grandfather rights" will apply to all bikes sold before the new regulations come into force. So any changes will not be retrospective.

This is very much welcomed and we can breathe a sigh of relief!

The DfT and Police are aware that electric bikes currently sold and used in the UK are fitted with 250W motors, they do not intend to become involved in prosecuting those that sell or ride them.

Another big sigh of relief. It's great to get this from the horses mouth so to speak, as so many e-bikers are worried about the legal grey areas and conflicting laws, and what might happen if stopped by police etc.

Although rates of acceleration are and will continue to be specified, there is nothing in EN15194 old or new that specifies the relationship between the input of the rider and the speed of the EAPC. Basically as long as the pedals are rotating in a forward direction however slowly, even if the rotation of the pedals is not contributing to driving the bike at all, a full throttle is still legal up to 25kph.

This answers the discussion I had yesterday with flecc and I think will and might have implications for future controllers and/or bike design, particularly with regards to gearing. It's good to know the law is not getting into the specifics and just leaves this fairly relaxed. That will not exclude those disabled or too weak to pedal with any effort etc from e-bikes, and of course it basically leaves the use of throttle-only bikes effectively still open (as long as the pedals are turning slowly).

All the above points are my interpretation only, and should not be relied upon in a court of law or when designing or manufacturing Electric Bikes or EAPCs.

Yes fair enough, obviously it's still in the planning stages and some small details may change, but overall this is very positive news for the industry and e-bike owners. It's good to see the way this is going, and it's a very sensible approach.


Thanks for all your efforts David on behalf of the industry and representing e-bike owners as stakeholders interests. If we didn't have BEBA, we wouldn't have a voice and the government would probably just do whatever it thinks best which might not be in our interests.

 

[flecc]

Pending David coming back in, my answers are:

How will these new safety regulation on batteries and wiring effect DIY'ers and small conversion businesses? Will there just be some simple guidelines to follow, or will installations need to be checked by qualified personnel and signed off as being electrically safe?

See the answer below on kit bikes and conversions. I think the same will probably apply.

This is somewhat confusing. Are you saying bikes with a throttle will need special Type Approval, or will all e-bikes require Type Approval to ensure they meet compliance? If so, is this only relevant to manufacturers of e-bikes, or will it also apply to anyone building or converting an e-bike themselves after the new law comes into effect?

Only e-bikes with independently acting throttles will have to be type approved by the vehicle inspectorate for use in that manner, something the manufacturer/supplier will arrange for each model. Pedelecs will only have to have the EN15194 laboratory certification.

Conversions of all kinds will almost certainly have to submitted for single vehicle type approval to be legal. This already exists for all manner of other road vehicle private builds and conversion and the inspectorate will no doubt have an added class for throttle controlled e-bikes. A small fee is payable for this service, and judging by the fees for other classes, it will hopefully be below £50.

Will bikes that meet the above criteria be allowed to be ridden on paths and cycle lanes, and still fully classed as bicycles in law?

I'm virtually certain that will be the case, since they will still be unregistered and considered as bicycles, and as e-bikes subject to the same speed and power laws as pedelecs. This may be something to be finalised though.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I do take the same position on EN15194 as in Europe Dave, I've never accepted the argument that they are essential in Britain when e-biking has been so much more successful in mainland Europe since their throttle exclusion in 2003. Of course the British position on this is just like it is on cycling in general, that it's a sport/fitness biased pursuit, while mainland Europe sees cycling as primarily personal transport.

However, I see the advantage of an independent acting throttle for those disabled enough to prevent normal cycling, and since that is such a very large group of people, the benefit that BEBA has obtained is well worthwhile. As I've posted previously though, it would have been better as a measure for the disabled, not a universal one.

As you say, EN15194 is coming anyway, and with a high and ever increasing proportion of the e-bikes sold in recent years being non-throttle EU compliant pedelecs, I expect they will gradually become the norm. The impending arrival of low cost crank drive pedelec units designed and produced in China will help overcome the past high-price barrier that has impeded even more pedelec progress.

Tony,completely independent my other posting about throttles and disabled riders neatly dovetails with your own thoughts.
KudosDave

 

[jazper53]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet, the new regulation are just proposals, and have not been passed, but it does seem the DIY home builds bikes will likely to be more difficult and costly to get approved even if they are within the legal parameters, Who do we have to thank for that?

 

[morphix]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet, the new regulation are just proposals, and have not been passed, but it does seem the DIY home builds bikes will likely to be more difficult and costly to get approved even if they are within the legal parameters, Who do we have to thank for that?

Yeah this Type Approval on self-builds is not good, but if they make it simple and it's not far to take your bike, I don't mind paying a reasonable fee just to get it done locally somewhere.

Heh, no doubt some people will take bike A for approval, and get the bit of paper, and ride bike version B that's not approved. Unless they fit some plate or mark on the bike or something, how will they know.

Well as you say, the future is yet to be determined and the way things are going this could all be academic if the UK's relationship with EU substantially changes or we leave, either of which looks possible.

And even if this law goes ahead, as David said..it won't affect the majority of us who have already bought or built our bikes..there's still at least 3 or 4 years yet too and probably a grace period after that too once the law comes into effect? So build your dream bike ;-)