20mph speed limit -applies to bikes ?

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Jazper,

Type approval is like a detailed MOT test and is required by law if you are to use a motor vehicle on the public highway.

If you were to build your own car or motorbike you would need to obtain a single vehicle TA before you could legally use in on the public highway. When a manufacturer wants to sell a motor vehicle in the UK for use on the public highway it also has to be Type Approved but we can obtain a full TA which would cover as many of the same models (without change) as we sell.

For further information see Vehicle Type Approval

Best regards

David

 

[Old_Dave]

If 2 is generic, then no sweat.. If it requires a test for each and every home modified / built bike then the grief / expense is a real pita, hopefully grandfather rights apply


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[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Dave, my understanding is that if you have a bike with a throttle that pre-dates the new law then Grandfather Rights will work for you. If you convert a non electric bike to an EAPC I don't think there would be an issue. However if you add a throttle to an existing EAPC or build a conversion with a throttle they would need single vehicle TA.

All the best

David

 

[Old_Dave]

Thank you for that David

I'll just carry on regardless then (good name for a film, lol) until 2016


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[flecc]

So that means all independent throttle-controlled kit-based or user-built conversions after the law is implemented will have to be presented to the Vehicle Inspectorate for type approval before use on the road. This will require the Inspectorate to have a new category and fee, since the present classes are not suitable.

This is rather what I expected would be the case and probably inevitable once the law was rationalised. Hopefully the recommendations will be approved in full.

Thanks to you David and all the BEBA members involved for your combined work on this issue, I certainly appreciate it and I trust most e-bikers will also.

 

[Old_Dave]

Between the lines

Basically as long as the pedals are rotating in a forward direction however slowly,

Will have to be the key phrase for builds after the cut off date and should allow for some very ingenious / novel solutions... which I must admit, I'm kinda looking forward to

I remember from my youth that a fixie wasn't bad (once you got used to it and remembered not to lock your knees)

 

[amigafan2003]

Between the lines



Will have to be the key phrase for builds after the cut off date and should allow for some very ingenious / novel solutions... which I must admit, I'm kinda looking forward to

I remember from my youth that a fixie wasn't bad (once you got used to it)

Crank drives that don't have a crank-side freewheel? Your feet wouldn't even have to be on the pedals to meet the criteria that way

You could even fit a geared reduction that meant the pedals spun at 10 rpm but the motor still powered the rear wheel at full speed.

That's the trouble with legislators - we're way cleverer than they are

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks to you David and all the BEBA members involved for your combined work on this issue, I certainly appreciate it and I trust most e-bikers will also.

Thanks Flecc, without the input and expertise from you all on Pedelec, letting us know what was wanted in the UK, helping us with technical aspects and filling in our surveys we would be rather impotent! It's teamwork Sam!

It would be good however if distributors and dealers not yet involved in BEBA would lend a hand or simply pay a subscription, this would enable us to do even more. With their voice coupled with ours we could make more of a splash.

BEBA is not simply an accreditation for those in the industry that offer first class service, it is also the only effective voice our industry has.

(Excuse the plug, but we really want to make BEBA even more effective!)

All the best

David

 

[Old_Dave]

You feet wouldn't even have to be on the pedals so meet the criteria that way ;-)

Nice one

 

[flecc]

Between the lines

Will have to be the key phrase for builds after the cut off date and should allow for some very ingenious / novel solutions... which I must admit, I'm kinda looking forward to

I remember from my youth that a fixie wasn't bad (once you got used to it and remembered not to lock your knees)

Just the pedal cranks rotating will not be enough, and despite Amigafan's hopes, the legislators are not so daft. I'm sure the draft will specify in some way that the rider is operating the pedals, as the existing EU law does. Remember, the EU law is the basis for the redraft, only the addition of the throttles at any legal assist speed being added.

There is one other thing unique to the legalistic UK, the unnecessary 14 years minimum age restriction, but that is contained within the Road Traffic Act 1988 so will not be affected by the redraft.

 

[flecc]

It would be good however if distributors and dealers not yet involved in BEBA would lend a hand or simply pay a subscription, this would enable us to do even more. With their voice coupled with ours we could make more of a splash.

BEBA is not simply an accreditation for those in the industry that offer first class service, it is also the only effective voice our industry has.

(Excuse the plug, but we really want to make BEBA even more effective!)

All the best

David

The plug is fully justified and appropriate, I happily second the sentiment. The whole industry benefits from the work that BEBA does, so it's entirely reasonable to expect all those commercially involved in the industry to get involved in BEBA. I understand that there are some who don't like all the rulings that BEBA have made, but as with any political process, the most effective way to change that is from the inside.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Flecc,

I absolutely agree, BEBA is an Association with a one member one vote policy. We would welcome any good distributor, dealer or manufacture from the industry to come and join us, if the majority wants to see change, then we change. If there is a particular clause that prospective members don't agree with we will try and remove that barrier in a bid to get as many involved as possible.

All the best

David

 

[Old_Dave]

David..

What happened about the 'private person' class of member, did it fall on stony ground ?

 

[amigafan2003]

Just the pedal cranks rotating will not be enough, and despite Amigafan's hopes, the legislators are not so daft. I'm sure the draft will specify in some way that the rider is operating the pedals, as the existing EU law does. Remember, the EU law is the basis for the redraft, only the addition of the throttles at any legal assist speed being added.

There is one other thing unique to the legalistic UK, the unnecessary 14 years minimum age restriction, but that is contained within the Road Traffic Act 1988 so will not be affected by the redraft.

My response was kind of toungue in cheek ;-)

Oh, and re: throttles - if the pedals need to be turning then they aren't really throttles at all are they?

What has been described is really an infinitiely variable assist mechanism - which is already allowed. It make no difference whether you press a button to change mode, rock a 3 way switch between low/med/high or use a "twist switch" (i.e. grip or thumb "throttle").

 

[flecc]

Oh, and re: throttles - if the pedals need to be turning then they aren't really throttles at all are they?

There's probably a misunderstanding here. The provision that the pedals must be rotating belongs only to the pedelec bikes with or without fully acting throttles that have not been type approved.

Those full throttle bikes that have been submitted and accepted for type approval will not have to have the pedals rotating at all, just optionally.

 

[GaRRy]

I understand that there are some who don't like all the rulings that BEBA have made, but as with any political process, the most effective way to change that is from the inside.

In general I agree but its hard to change a rule that you are not prepared/able to live by if you join until you can get it changed.

eg (and yes it a stupid rule but just meant to illistrate) Say there was a rule saying you can not sell bikes painted Green and all your bikes are Green and would cost you a fortune to change the colour. So you cant join as you would have to agree to this rule and so could not sell any bikes !!!. Sure once you are a member you could try to get the rules changed but meanwhile your business is completely unviable.

 

[flecc]

In general I agree but its hard to change a rule that you are not prepared/able to live by if you join until you can get it changed.

eg (and yes it a stupid rule but just meant to illistrate) Say there was a rule saying you can not sell bikes painted Green and all your bikes are Green and would cost you a fortune to change the colour. So you cant join as you would have to agree to this rule and so could not sell any bikes !!!. Sure once you are a member you could try to get the rules changed but meanwhile your business is completely unviable.

One can join and try to get a change, and then resign if it proves to be not possible. The alternative of staying out and shouting on the sidelines never works. However, extreme examples cannot be relevant when BEBA already has a number of members who would never sign up if such existed.

As you can see though, David has said that BEBA will try to remove any barrier to joining if one is raised. If that still doesn't prove possible, I still say join to try and get a change, and then if that proves impossible in that democratic institution, just accept that outcome as we do in our democratic society.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Flecc,

Yes Garry, please talk to us, we would rather have as many members as possible than risk someone not joining if there is something we can do to help. We need however to maintain the BEBA ethos, and that is that all members should be able and willing to offer a first class service to their customers.

All the best

David

 

[GaRRy]

Thanks Flecc,

Yes Garry, please talk to us, we would rather have as many members as possible than risk someone not joining if there is something we can do to help. We need however to maintain the BEBA ethos, and that is that all members should be able and willing to offer a first class service to their customers.

All the best

David

Thanks for the offer David but as I dont sell ebikes and dont expect to in the for seeable future so not sure why id want to join. It was more meant as a comment based on what I have observed on why certain others seem unwilling to join. I do really wish you all the best and think BEBA is definitely a good idea and wish you luck with getting others onboard.

Now what we need is a consumer organisation to give you more grief

 

[jazper53]

I wonder by 2016 when the proposed legislation comes into law, that it will be already obsolete, and out of touch with new developments, whether it be through DIY kits, or consumer demand for more progressive technological advancements, that will further perpetuate the culture of non-compliance that has already existed for quite some time? EN19154 will stand out for being the party poopers charter IMHO