1000w ebike ???

[soundwave]

http://www.bladesandbows.co.uk/folding-knives-44-c.asp

just flick knives you cant buy,and shuriken,over here anyway.

 

[D8ve]

So the question was has anything legal been banned due to illegal use.
Evidence says yes.
The Q was asked as could illegal bike use get pedelecs banned.
Obviously illegal use has had many things banned.
Therefore silly illegal bikes risk the free use of pedelecs.
A 250 watt bike with cutout at 18 mph is illegal but unlikely to have significant effect.
A 1kw 30 mph beast on a cycle path hitting school kids is likely to be front page and get a knee jerk reaction.

 

[Yamdude]

My Leatherman multitool has a locking blade, perfectly legal to sell them. I just cant carry it in public without a good reason.
Yet i can legally carry my Victorinox Swiss Army knife, which i do constantly as its attached to my keys, but it has a blade the same size as the Leatherman and its as sharp as a scalpel.
The law is stupid sometimes....... I dont have any respect for stupid laws, so i still carry my Leatherman sometimes, attached to my belt.

 

[soundwave]

my bike is 250w and can go 35mph

 

[morphix]

That'll make interesting reading.

It certainly will. I'll post you the link when I'm done, with a special page dedicated to explaining the law.

Especially seeing as you've personally tweaked the ebike acceptable speed limit up by 7.5mph already. What else will you be tweaking. Suits you sir?

Errr no I never "tweaked" the limit. The limit is 15.5mph and everyone who owns a legal pedelec knows that.

Well Sir, you've confused me. So, which is it. 15 or 23mph? Oh, I get it. 15 is 'the law' but you're quite ok with 23mph on a personal level. So you're personally ok with breaking the law. Is that about right? Or did I miss your point entirely?

You're easily confused I must say.

What's complicated..

Law: 15.5mph from a 250W motor without pedalling.

When I said 23mph I did say, when pedaling a highly geared e-bike as well as using full 15.5mph assistance, 23mph is achievable as maximum speed from a 250W motor on the flat. There's nothing illegal about going faster than 15.5mph on an e-bike, providing the extra speed comes from pedaling and not the motor!

 

[flecc]

Uhhhhmmmm you sure? Illegal to carry in public without a good reason sure but you can buy and sell quite happily afaik

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Flick/gravity/balisong all illegal but lock just treated as fixed blade not folding?

I'm only going by a news announcement some while ago, never seen in print.
.

 

[LeighPing]

There's nothing illegal about going faster than 15.5mph on an e-bike, providing the extra speed comes from pedaling and not the motor!

I'm easily confused by confusing legislation.

 

[morphix]

My Leatherman multitool has a locking blade, perfectly legal to sell them. I just cant carry it in public without a good reason.
Yet i can legally carry my Victorinox Swiss Army knife, which i do constantly as its attached to my keys, but it has a blade the same size as the Leatherman and its as sharp as a scalpel.
The law is stupid sometimes....... I dont have any respect for stupid laws, so i still carry my Leatherman sometimes, attached to my belt.

Why would even do that? Is it worth it for a fine of up to £5,000 or 4 years in prison for just the sake of carrying a knife?

 

[Yamdude]

Why would even do that? Is it worth it for a fine of up to £5,000 or 4 years in prison for just the sake of carrying a knife?

My Leatherman isn't carried as a knife, its carried as a multitool....... in fact i've hardly ever stabbed anyone with it.

 

[morphix]

I'm easily confused by confusing legislation.

It's one of the simplest legislations though of all!

Here Juicy Bike has put a nice summary of the EU Directive which was finally harmonised into UK law last year, bringing UK e-bike law in-line with the EU Directive.

Here's the summary points to check if wanting to ride on the road legally, or choose a new legally compliant e-bike it may:

• Be fitted with a motor with a power of no more than 250w
• Provide a maximum assisted speed (i.e. the speed at which motor assistance is automatically cut off) of no more than 25 kmph (roughly 15.5 mph)
• Not be fitted with a full speed throttle that can work ‘independently’ (that is without the pedals ‘moving forward’). Start Up Assist throttles (those that assist up to 6 km/h) are allowed
• Be ridden without any minimum age limit

The only ambiguity or confusing part which may get some people is the UK's historic use of the twist throttles and riding at up to 15.5mph without pedaling which is contrary to the above EU Directive law the UK harmonised with.

This was dealt with by new UK legislation:

Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015

This legislation makes it clear that all new e-bikes made or sold after January 1st 2016 must not have a throttle that works without pedaling. This does not apply retrospectively though. So if your bike has a throttle-only mode and was purchased or made before January 1st 2016, you can still use your throttle without pedaling.

If your e-bike was made and purchased after January 1st 2016, and has a throttle that allows traveling without pedaling it's no longer a legally compliant e-bike and requires Type Approval with the DVSA.

If the e-bike goes faster than 15.5mph or has a motor larger than 250W, it falls into the electric moped motorcycle vehicle (AM category) under the law.

This requires the registration, tax, insurance, and a driving license with AM category (AM category can only be ridden by persons aged 16 and older, it requires either a full motorcycle category pass, else a provision license and CBT pass every 2 years) and wearing a motorcycle helmet and showing L-plates if full motorcycle test not passed - and registration alone will require evidence of conformity to a moped class of vehicle, either provided by the manufacturer or completed by the DVSA at one of its approved test stations during a single vehicle approval test. Which kind of takes the fun out of riding a bicycle.

However - that's the Law as it stands.

 

[trex]

When I said 23mph I did say, when pedaling a highly geared e-bike as well as using full 15.5mph assistance, 23mph is achievable as maximum speed from a 250W motor on the flat. There's nothing illegal about going faster than 15.5mph on an e-bike, providing the extra speed comes from pedaling and not the motor!

You give the impression that the full assistance can be maintained legally up to the speed limit and you can top it up with personal effort. In fact, the assistance must decrease when you approach the legal speed limit and cease when you are over. You must therefore ride entirely on your own steam from there on. To reach 23mph on the flat legally, you must be a very fit pedaller on a bike with low rolling resistance like the Karoo because the motor is not allowed to assist at all.

 

[LeighPing]

Cheers Morphix, great info.

December 1965
The introduction of the 70mph speed limit on Britain's motorways.

Just a little reminder for all you drivers out there.

 

[Yamdude]

Things you'll never hear on this forum........
People with illegal ebikes telling people they shouldn't have legal ebikes and should have illegal ones instead.
People who dont wear helmets, telling those that do wear helmets, they shouldn't.
People who have throttles, telling those who dont have throttles, they should have them.

Shame the opposite isn't true.

 

[soundwave]

but my car has dongles fitted its only 3500 bhp.

 

[morphix]

My Leatherman isn't carried as a knife, its carried as a multitool....... in fact i've hardly ever stabbed anyone with it.

But the fact you're carrying it in public, is a criminal offense unless you can demonstrate good reason. Do you really wanna go there, when the penalty is possibly prison?

 

[soundwave]

well if he is on a bike and a multi tool that be good enough reason, tho if you have a 6inc kitchen blade stashed in ur trousers its a different story.

 

[flecc]

This legislation makes it clear that all new e-bikes made or sold after January 1st 2016 must not have a throttle that works without pedaling.

However - that's the Law as it stands.

Except that a period of grace is allowed to sell existing stocks which then remained legal. For example the period when the new type approval law was first announced in 2003 was from the announcement on 9th May 2003 to 10th November 2003, six months.

I believe the initial period announced this time was a bit more generous, but that has now become obscure since the DfT has realised that they cannot have a suitable type approval regime in place before January 2018.

So once again we have a period of confusion when no relevant law is in full force, something we are no strangers to.
.

 

[Alan Quay]

It's one of the simplest legislations though of all!

Here Juicy Bike has put a nice summary of the EU Directive which was finally harmonised into UK law last year, bringing UK e-bike law in-line with the EU Directive.

Here's the summary points to check if wanting to ride on the road legally, or choose a new legally compliant e-bike it may:

• Be fitted with a motor with a power of no more than 250w
• Provide a maximum assisted speed (i.e. the speed at which motor assistance is automatically cut off) of no more than 25 kmph (roughly 15.5 mph)
• Not be fitted with a full speed throttle that can work ‘independently’ (that is without the pedals ‘moving forward’). Start Up Assist throttles (those that assist up to 6 km/h) are allowed
• Be ridden without any minimum age limit

The only ambiguity or confusing part which may get some people is the UK's historic use of the twist throttles and riding at up to 15.5mph without pedaling which is contrary to the above EU Directive law the UK harmonised with.

This was dealt with by new UK legislation:

Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015

This legislation makes it clear that all new e-bikes made or sold after January 1st 2016 must not have a throttle that works without pedaling. This does not apply retrospectively though. So if your bike has a throttle-only mode and was purchased or made before January 1st 2016, you can still use your throttle without pedaling.

If your e-bike was made and purchased after January 1st 2016, and has a throttle that allows traveling without pedaling it's no longer a legally compliant e-bike and requires Type Approval with the DVSA.

If the e-bike goes faster than 15.5mph or has a motor larger than 250W, it falls into the electric moped motorcycle vehicle (AM category) under the law.

This requires the registration, tax, insurance, and a driving license with AM category (AM category can only be ridden by persons aged 16 and older, it requires either a full motorcycle category pass, else a provision license and CBT pass every 2 years) and wearing a motorcycle helmet and showing L-plates if full motorcycle test not passed - and registration alone will require evidence of conformity to a moped class of vehicle, either provided by the manufacturer or completed by the DVSA at one of its approved test stations during a single vehicle approval test. Which kind of takes the fun out of riding a bicycle.

However - that's the Law as it stands.

This is not the law as it stands.

It's a lot more complex than this. Infact, it could be argued that the first 4 points are wrong:

The motor power is not limited to 250w. The motor must not be rated more than 250w.

A 10% allowance is made for the 15.5 speed limit, which means about 17mph in practice.

Full throttles are allowed until (I think) 2018.

When did the 14 year old age limit change?

...so it not as simple as you make out.


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[morphix]

Things you'll never hear on this forum........
People with illegal ebikes telling people they shouldn't have legal ebikes and should have illegal ones instead.

I would hope not either. That would be silly telling people to do something which is illegal and a criminal offense likely to land you in court with a fine, penalty points on your license or even a license ban if you're involved in an accident of any kind.

People who dont wear helmets, telling those that do wear helmets, they shouldn't.

I recall we did have a big discussion on this some years back. And yes, many people (myself included) did question whether bicycle helmets (apart from looking incredibly silly) actually provided any significant head protection if you fell off a bicycle? The studies carried out and evidence was not convicing they do and mixed. And in fact there's some studies suggested many helmets sold provide little to no protection, and some may even do more harm than good!

People who have throttles, telling those who dont have throttles, they should have them.

.

Again this one has had a great deal of debate years back, when this forum seemed to be 180 degrees from what appears to be now (ie. people were much more in favour of keeping pedelecs legal, or at least looking legal, and not openly breaking the law).

The use of throttles was an issue on which there was much division of opinion as I recall, with some "pedelec purists" believing a true pedelec shouldn't have a throttle and pedal assist was the way to go. Whilst others argued that throttles were necessary for safer riding amongst busy traffic for faster pull away and tighter control over pedal assistance when stopping/starting at giveways, roundabouts, and traffic lights etc. And also there's a strong argument that throttles make e-bikes more inclusive and usable for disabled or elderly people (I think probably all factors in why the government demonstrated some flexibility on the issue of throttle-only use when lobbied by the BEBA).

 

[Yamdude]

But the fact you're carrying it in public, is a criminal offense unless you can demonstrate good reason. Do you really wanna go there, when the penalty is possibly prison?

I'll take my chances, just like i would with an illegal ebike if i so wished...... you getting it yet ?
You forum 'ooh your not allowed to do that' type people can bang on about illegalities all you like, it wont make any difference to me, neither will to many others on here.