Woosh Santana CD gearchange quality

[trex]

None of the legal bikes can do the speed of the S class. The TCM CDs are about as powerful as the Bosch Active line, they have low maximum power that they are never going to feel like motobikes. The BPM bikes are only impressive at under 17mph.

 

[trex]

This is my point. The charts and text say the CD can do this but the BPM Big Bear cannot. Where does the truth lie?

Having said that, many people are saying the BPM is the better choice and I think I believe them

The Santana CD at 6.5mph on 15% gradient: you have to climb at gear 1 and the chart says you should weigh less than 75kgs. If you are heavier, the speed drops but you can still do it with throttle.
The Big Bear: weight is not much of a problem, but speed is. You can weigh 120kgs and it will still get you up 8% hill on throttle but on steeper hill, it may start to decelerate. When this happens, the Bear loses power very sharply.
When you decelerate with the Bear on a hill, that's it, changing gear does not help, you have to pedal hard or get off the bike and push. The gradient barrier is very sudden. This is the same with all hub motors except the xiongda XD which climbs as well as the TCM CDs but noisier.

 

[Geebee]

My experience with legal hubs is that as long as you can assist them they climb well, but if their speed falls to far on a steep hill they will stall especially an issue if the rider has limited strength.
A crank drive wont have this issue as long as low gear is low enough it will slowly climb a steep hill with or without help.
I would strongly doubt the Santana CD or any legal CD climbing 15% grade at 6.5 mph without assist, maybe 6.5 kph was meant?

 

[trex]

I weigh 75kgs and I climbed Pier hill several times on throttle alone. Even the Zephyr CDN managed 8-9mph on throttle alone at the steepest part of Pier Hill, that's what shows up on the LCD.
Woosh fit high discharge rate batteries to all their 2014 bikes, the Santana CD has 28A BMS.
On steep hills, most of the power is spent lifting your weight. If I (75kgs) can go up a hill at 7mph, a 100kg person will get up the same hill at 5.25mph, a 120kg person 4.37mph. The Bear stalls on hills at around 5mph.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

We keep forgetting about the Tonaro. IMO it has more power than the other Chinese crank-drives. I'm pretty sure that it could manage 14% without pedalling and with a 100kg on board. I know the first Woosh CD couldn't do that, but it's possible they've changed something since then. The Xiongda can just do it at 15 amps. The BPM can do it easily, but only if you give it enough current. It can't do it with 15 amps. It needs about 20 amps for that.

The Tonaros were at Redbridge last year, and I did a lap on one. I didn't try it on throttle only (maybe it didn't have one). On the circuit with its rolling hills, the Tonaro, Ezee Torq, Bosch, Kudos Tornado were all about equal on pedal effort. None of them required much effort except that you had to use lower gears and pedal a bit faster on the crank-drives.

 

[trex]

d8veh, on the Sirocco CD, Woosh changed the 7-speed freewheel for 8-speed cassette, controller and battery since after Redbridge 2013.
has anyone bought a Tonaro recently?

 

[hoppy]

We keep forgetting about the Tonaro. IMO it has more power than the other Chinese crank-drives. I'm pretty sure that it could manage 14% without pedalling and with a 100kg on board. I know the first Woosh CD couldn't do that, but it's possible they've changed something since then. The Xiongda can just do it at 15 amps. The BPM can do it easily, but only if you give it enough current. It can't do it with 15 amps. It needs about 20 amps for that.

The Tonaros were at Redbridge last year, and I did a lap on one. I didn't try it on throttle only (maybe it didn't have one). On the circuit with its rolling hills, the Tonaro, Ezee Torq, Bosch, Kudos Tornado were all about equal on pedal effort. None of them required much effort except that you had to use lower gears and pedal a bit faster on the crank-drives.

Well said, d8veh.My 3 year old,200 watt Tonaro climbs 1in6 on throttle only with my 85 kg on board.No problems with derailleur either! I still love it!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's also some 48v ones floating round now. There's an upgrade kit or you can get them OEM:

http://www.evelo.com/electric-bicycles/aries/

 

[dmsims]

My memory of the Santana CD on throttle uphill was that it was not that great but then we all we know memories can be . . .

So I've just taken it out of the box and thankfully a hill is never far away

I am 92kg, Gear 1, Level 5 assist, throttle only

Went up this at 5.2 mph

Going up this:

Slowed to 2.2 mph (last I saw) by which time I was having to wiggle the bike to keep balance and then came to a dead stop:

Gradient graph: (which backs up my seat of the pants gradientometer)

 

[Jason Scott]

Pictures never convey how steep something is But your graph would indicate it couldn't manage a 15% hill on throttle alone, but the Santana CD is different than the Sirocco and Sport CD, which still indicate 6.5mph on a 15 degree hill in first gear. That's also based on weighing 75kgs, so maybe your experience is pretty accurate.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The Santana CD at 6.5mph on 15% gradient: you have to climb at gear 1 and the chart says you should weigh less than 75kgs. If you are heavier, the speed drops but you can still do it with throttle.
The Big Bear: weight is not much of a problem, but speed is. You can weigh 120kgs and it will still get you up 8% hill on throttle but on steeper hill, it may start to decelerate. When this happens, the Bear loses power very sharply.
When you decelerate with the Bear on a hill, that's it, changing gear does not help, you have to pedal hard or get off the bike and push. The gradient barrier is very sudden. This is the same with all hub motors except the xiongda XD which climbs as well as the TCM CDs but noisier.

Trex,do you work for Woosh?...you seem to know more about Woosh bikes than Woosh do themselves.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

I am an old friend of Hatti but views are my own.
I don't work for anyone, am retired now.

 

[Jimod]

I don't work for anyone, am retired now.

Lucky man.