Wisper ties up distributor deal for Grace bikes e-bikes in the UK

[NRG]

You've done it again, every post is a flippin advert....'look at me'... Start your own thread.

 

[eddieo]

Getting pretty fed up of this endless garbage and misinformation from some one here.....they are not electric bikes as you very well know. They are electric motor vehicles requiring SVA testing tax and insurance and number plates......

That 50 cycles sell them with probably no more then a nod and a wink (if that) regards the legalities is a disgrace....That you do likewise to anyone with the pound notes, and let unlicensed and untested individuals out on our road also a disgrace, and I am astonished that you repeatedly get away with it on an e bike forum.....

 

[indalo]

Sadly and not for the first time either, a thread has been hijacked by a trade member hoping to hawk his wares to a wider audience than would otherwise be available to him, left to his own efforts.

It wouldn't be quite so bad but the member doesn't even sell ebikes!

Indalo

 

[PJM]

But surely if there was no interest or market for higher power bikes no one would care. I would still like Flecc to post up the details of the pending prosecution for a ebike related offence. I actually look at my conversion and think that apart from an illuminated reg plate and a 6mm larger mirror I think it would pass the sva. I look at the cost of straight ebike insurance and wonder would light motorcycle insurance be that much more.

 

[flecc]

I'd certainly be happy to have a suitable higher speed class with minimal registration requirements as in Germany, but that is a different issue from that of the standard e-bike class.

As I've inferred before, the issue of prosecutions is a sensitive one in the current circumstance where even 250 watt e-bikes are arguably illegal. For that reason as I've already said, I will not be rocking the boat with details of what has transpired until after the forthcoming legal revisions are in place.

 

[PJM]

When it comes to the alleged prosecution I can find no hint of it anywhere. I am amazed that you have a direct line to this one Flecc. I think the earlier post about the scooter style is a good example of drawing attention to yourself. I still see a normal e bike gathering no attentiion 250 350 or even a 1000 w

 

[amigafan2003]

When it comes to the alleged prosecution I can find no hint of it anywhere. I am amazed that you have a direct line to this one Flecc. I think the earlier post about the scooter style is a good example of drawing attention to yourself. I still see a normal e bike gathering no attentiion 250 350 or even a 1000 w

I think the only instance where an illegal ebike will draw attention (as long as it doesn't look like a motorbike) is when one is involved in an accident. I think that scenario applies to the example Flecc is talking about.

So - if you ride an illegal ebike - don't crash! And if you do crash scarper sharpish!*


*Disclaimer - I'm not actually suggesting anybody does that before the do gooders get on my case!

 

[flecc]

When it comes to the alleged prosecution I can find no hint of it anywhere. I am amazed that you have a direct line to this one Flecc.

My direct line was in an advisory capacity. I'm not going to be drawn on this no matter how hard anyone tries. I know that my silence is in the best interest of e-bikers. Once broken to show that it was indeed in their best interests, those best interests would no longer be served of course.

 

[eddieo]

Ah Ha! So your working for the prosecution!..............I like it!lol

(joking)

 

[Hugh]

Looks the business, especially to someone currently pedalling a Kalkhoff around various wild bits of Croatia. I'm lugging panniers so it's doing the job well, but I'm having to be very wary on descents.

The Grace MX could be the answer to a maiden's prayer, if it has frame brazings to allow fitment of water bottle, pump and, ideally, a rack.

Does anyone have experience of the Gates and Nu Vinci drive system? I know Harleys use belt drive so I guess it should be be strong enough, though I'm mildly concerned about lifetime and ease of replacement. Ditto with batteries - are they something out-of-the-way which will be difficult to source in future (here speaks an ex Izip owner !!). Also, having had a moped many years ago with a rubber-band drive system (like the DAFs of old), how 'slushy' is the gearing?

I'm only asking all this because I'm really tempted - the bike looks great, it's well kitted out with decent quality peripherals, and I love it in principle.

If anyone here ever read Hugh Lofting's Doctor Doolittle books as a kid, they may remember a pig called Gub-Gub who used to send himself banana skins as presents so that he got some post. I turn 60 shortly and am very tempted indeed by this particular banana skin

 

[flecc]

These toothed belt drives have unstretchable internal cords, so the drive is at least as positive as a chain and with no back slop. They outlive chains and sprockets by a very big factor and are silent.

The o/s rear frame on bikes with belt drive have an unbolting section that allows a new belt to be slipped into place in seconds, cleaner and much easier than chain and sprocket changes, and the "sprocket" the belt engages with never needs changing. Spares should always be available since this type of drive is very widely used in all kinds of machinery and there are a number of manufacturers.

The only downside, despite the claims to the contrary, is that toothed belt drive is a bit less efficient, but on an e-bike that won't be noticed at all.

 

[NRG]

...until you come to ride it without power...oh yes, some of us do!

 

[flecc]

Indeed, NRG, but with a NuVinci gear hub as well as a toothed belt drive I doubt you'd be doing that for long or often! David said he didn't understand "riding through treacle" comments, but he only needs to go for a ride on this unpowered to quickly gain that understanding.

E-bikes are likely to become the main home for technical "improvements" to bicycles such as shaft drives, toothed belt drives, CVT hubs and other complex gear systems, since they can accommodate any losses in a way that unpowered cycling cannot.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Well done David (Miall), have been tempted to sell these high end bikes in the UK,will be good to see someone doing a proper job of importing in volume and with good support,in comparison to your obvious competitors who seem to await a customer order then try to buy one!
Am off to Eurobike next week,looking forward to seeing what new expensive goodies the Germans have dreamed up this year.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[grasshopper]

The Grace Easy and Grace MX will be available to view and test at the forthcoming Cycle Show at the NEC in Birmingham. Further details will be on the Wisper web pages next week, but in the mean time if anyone would like further details drop me a PM.

I have bought my ticket for the Cycle Show at the NEC on the strength of this post. Do you have your stand number yet, David?

Do these bikes come with mudguards? Not really bothered about having an ashtray.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The "riding through treacle" comment has come from unpowered cycling experience David, it certainly wouldn't apply with a Bosch unit and 50 Nm of torque. Toothed belt drive is certainly very much quieter than chain and sprocket, and again any efficiency loss is wiped out by the drive power available on this system. With this power level the problematic chain wear of the Bosch system is overcome with toothed belt which makes perfect sense for this application.

It sounds like a great all round e-bike, but surely also a high speed class one if the assistance is to 45 kph (28 mph)?

Thanks Flecc, it is a fantastic bike, I had forgotten where I had heard "treacle" comment, but it stuck!!

We were at Bike Blenheim at the weekend with E4 and BEBA, we showed the bike for the first time and gave people the opportunity to ride it, generally they were amazed. There were one or two who felt that it was neither a mountain bike or a road bike and was therefor a bit of a compromise.

The look of the bike was very well accepted, people actually wanted to have photographs taken standing by the bike! Great fun.

I have asked about the 45kph and am awaiting and answer from Grace. It certainly wasn't a 350W set up so I believe there was an error in programing the Bosch system on this particular bike. I will report back. I should point out that we will not be selling the bike with the 45kph spec, great fun yes, but massively risky. If a "no win no fee" lawyer managed to get hold of the knowledge that someone involved in badly injuring one of their "clients" was riding such a bike, the rider should get ready to lose their house! The damages and costs bill would certainly be into six figures. Would the rider's insurers pay up? I doubt it.

On a lighter note Bike Blenheim was superb, with 1,300 Brompton riders turning up for the Brompton World Championships! Next year we are thinking of expanding the electric bike section to include a race and maybe a treasure hunt.

It was also great to meet Shemozle! We should publish an I Spy book of Pedelec members!!!!

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

I have asked about the 45kph and am awaiting and answer from Grace. It certainly wasn't a 350W set up so I believe there was an error in programing the Bosch system on this particular bike.

All the best

David

Thanks David. The 15 mph limiting on the Bosch system is by sensing a rear wheel magnet rotation frequency, so the high speed versions probably just have that limiting circuit bypassed, allowing the unit to run to it's natural limits.

 

[Mussels]

David,
What's the likely range of the MX? They have a smaller battery but are probably more efficient so it's hard to tell if it is suitable for regular 20 mile rides without badly affecting the battery life span.

Edit: Is the battery easy to remove for charging?

 

[jerrysimon]

Already a belt drive convert, albeit that its still a horses for courses thing. For rear hub drives and bikes like mine which are portable there are many advantages.

I have a Moulton TSR 2 which splits in two for easier transport another big advantage of belt drive not getting oil all over you car boot.

I don't really notice much difference in resistance over a chain drive.

Disadvantages as probably already covered are the need for a split in the rear frame to fit the belt and adusting gear ranges requires new belt (not cheap) and non standard main chain ring and rear sprocket. Also again as covered I suspect, is that it can only be used on fixed gear or hubs (an advantage in my book).

PS Oh should add its a bit of a faff removing the rear wheel as care needs to be taken to not twist the belt (as this can damage it) and when refitted you need to get the tension right. Many also have a small device called a snubber (top photo left with roller pushed up against the underside of the belt) to keep it firmly against the rear sprocket. If not then when under tension it can have a tendancy to jump teeth on the rear sprocket. This has happened to me a couple of times when I got the setup wrong, and is a very bizarre feeling and makes a strange noise when it skips a tooth or two.

Regards

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Just read back through this post. If these bikes really are selling in high numbers the market really must be different there ?

I am not sure in the current climate/market in the UK you would see many sales of these bikes.

Regards

Jerry