Wisper battery charger

[flecc]

Yes, and, as you say, they were inadequately cooled (although designed and manufactured like that). I think in general that heat generation is bad (being an undesirable byproduct in the case of chargers). Laptop chargers do sometimes burn out, I've found. I never leave my portable DVD player plugged in unattended for that reason. Or my laptop or, indeed, anything that uses a charger.

I recently installed extra hard-drive cooling fans in my computer. They're only a couple of pounds each, so I'm looking into mounting one onto my bike charger and powering it from the charger output (the fans will run on 36V). I'll post details here so that anyone who feels competent enough can do the same thing.

Fans do help a lot, even the tiny 30mm slow running one on the Chinese charger that David is now introducing. It's just enough to move the hot air out as it generates, but they run perfectly cool as a result.

And as you say, laptop power supplies are notoriously both very hot running and unreliable. Replacements are a major business for the aftermarket suppliers.
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[nigel]

BY mandy
Did you do your bike test Nigel?
I rode scooters on a provisional for years and done one CBT when they brought it in and didn't go back for another, so hence I am into the "Leccy" bike now and love the freedom of access to places you cannot go on a motor bike plus it is far far cheaper to run Yes i did pass not bad for 50 yrs old though i should have passed in my 20s i was riding a 250 honda back then i think i was having to much fun to really care so back to the present i now can sale my 125 suzuki and get a bigger bike which will be a 04 plate 650 DL suzuki v twin so bring on the summmer and those dry roads a mad biker is in town NIGEL.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Warning

Having read this thread I am very worried about anyone even thinking of drilling holes in their charger cases.

I would not recommend making internal or external modifications to any charger or it's case for any reason, whether competent or not.

The input on the chargers is 240v. If you drill a hole in the case it could expose a cable or connection with 240v running through it, rendering the charger deadly.

Regards David

 

[jimmyengland1000]

Having read this thread I am very worried about anyone even thinking of drilling holes in their charger cases.

I would not recommend making internal or external modifications to any charger or it's case for any reason, whether competent or not.

The input on the chargers is 240v. If you drill a hole in the case it could expose a cable or connection with 240v running through it, rendering the charger deadly.

Regards David

Yes, agreed, it would be dangerous if, for example, one stuck something in through one of the holes or if one spilled water all over it or similar. Also, if a child poked something into it. However, many electrical devices have grilles to allow cooling (eg tv's, computer screens, amplifiers) even though they are 240V. I use amps, cooled lights and a variety of other devices which have a similar arrangement and which are 240V. Even the new fan-cooled charger for the Wisper would be more prone to, say, water ingress, via the fan itself.... or sticking a wire through it.

Personally, I think that any electrical device should be used away from sources of water... that goes for just about anything, and one rarely pokes things through holes in electrical devices (eg through the back of my TV). So, used properly, I don't think a charger with a perforated cover is dangerous at all. It's probably a lot less dangerous than having a charger which gets very hot in use (thus presenting a fire hazard). As has been mentioned, chargers burning out, especially on lithium battery devices, is not a rare occurrence. So, for me at any rate, I'd prefer to have a perforated charger cover, use the charger in a way that any device should be used, than have it run hot all the time.

 

[jimmyengland1000]

Follow up

Actually, having taken a further look at my gorgonzola charger, I can report that about 80% of the total area of the top of the charger is aluminium heat sink. There are no exposed wires at all on the area that I have drilled (see pic at start of thread). So, it would take a determined effort to cause any problems... something like poking a piece of flexible wire in there or pouring water on it. Both of which, children do. So, as with any electrical device with cooling vents, any gorgonzola charger should be used with care if accessible by children, I'd say. I always charge my battery outside the house in a brick outbuilding, mainly because of the stories one hears about some lithium batteries catching fire under charge.

 

[Mandy]

BY mandy
Did you do your bike test Nigel?
I rode scooters on a provisional for years and done one CBT when they brought it in and didn't go back for another, so hence I am into the "Leccy" bike now and love the freedom of access to places you cannot go on a motor bike plus it is far far cheaper to run Yes i did pass not bad for 50 yrs old though i should have passed in my 20s i was riding a 250 honda back then i think i was having to much fun to really care so back to the present i now can sale my 125 suzuki and get a bigger bike which will be a 04 plate 650 DL suzuki v twin so bring on the summmer and those dry roads a mad biker is in town NIGEL.

LOL Nigel! Well done you! And at 50 too! There is hope for me yet at a mere 48!
Hope you're not putting your Leccy bike out to grass are you?
Must admit I used to love zipping around here there and everywhere on my scooters in my younger days, lol!!
Did you not hate them bringing in that CBT? I hated it, but I think it was aimed at the youngsters. I had nigh on 17 years on my many scooters and that was my life line and loved it!
Regards and happy biking in true motor mode!
Mandy

 

[flecc]

Actually, having taken a further look at my gorgonzola charger, I can report that about 80% of the total area of the top of the charger is aluminium heat sink.

I noticed that from your photo Jimmy, there is obviously no risk there compared with plenty of consumer equipment like TVs and monitors.

I think David is just playing safe, but ironically his new charger has ventilation holes in the mains input area, with live soldered connections behind them.

It also uses a euro lead, these aren't shuttered and leave the socket connections open, live and exposed when unplugged from the charger while still plugged into the mains as many people do.
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[Mandy]

The point is, it's not a "radical change" to anything. It's removing 4 screws, a plastic lid and drilling a few holes in it and putting the lid back on. You think that's a radical change (whereas the people my suggestion is aimed at, wouldn't), so I'd leave it alone and carry on using your cake rack. No problem. But posting a response about it possibly rendering the charger useless or dangerous is just daft. All it accomplishes is to attempt to negate a perfectly sensible and easy idea by implying that it could be dangerous or damage the component if done by someone incompetent. That applies to any of the hundreds of technical suggestions on this site, made by people who are competent, knowledgeable and who wish to share their technical experiences with other like-minded people. They all assume that someone who feels incompetent won't even attempt it. Each time I read a technical suggestion here, I hope I don't see a response 'advising' everyone that, if done by someone incompetent, it might make the bike catch fire, or not work or .... shock horror..... invalidate the warranty... that would get really tedious.

I'm sorry James but I actually do not use a cake rack as I do not find the charger in my opinion gets too hot. It was merely a suggestion for those who have concerns. My lap top charger gets considerably hotter and I think that most computer manufacturers would be horrified at your suggetion if you were to suggest drilling into the charger supplied.
As for suggesting that rendering the charger dangerous or useless was certainly not a daft suggestion and a most definite possibility if someone was not Competent enough which is a word you seem to like using, well certainly in your reponses to myself. Did you know you mentioned the word competent or incompetent 5 times in this last post?
I actually thought this forum was aimed at all people that use the electric bike as a form of transport and not just aimed at the technical aspects of the electric bike? Although I am very interested in these too.
I have stated in previous posts to Rob that I am not concerned about the warranty issues. He had previously posted on this site and had problems regarding the bike he purchased and has seemed to have now stopped posting I actually stated in my posts that if you can get the bike that cheap then don't grumble.
I was simply stating on this occasion as to the singular warranty of the charger so was certainly not going down that road again.
I am all for people adding an extra motor or more powerful one to there bike together with a more powerful or added battery.
I am thinking of turning mine into a chopper this weekend and am extremely competent Any suggestions? Only Kidding
Regards
Mandy

 

[Mandy]

Actually, having taken a further look at my gorgonzola charger, I can report that about 80% of the total area of the top of the charger is aluminium heat sink. There are no exposed wires at all on the area that I have drilled (see pic at start of thread). So, it would take a determined effort to cause any problems... something like poking a piece of flexible wire in there or pouring water on it. Both of which, children do. So, as with any electrical device with cooling vents, any gorgonzola charger should be used with care if accessible by children, I'd say. I always charge my battery outside the house in a brick outbuilding, mainly because of the stories one hears about some lithium batteries catching fire under charge.

I would say all electrical appliances that are plugged directly into the mains should be treated with respect and anyone with any common sense will realise you do not immerse in water or get a child to place there finger into any accessable holes so that should go without saying.
If you adapt a bike and are out on the road you would not be subjected to an electric shock, well I wouldn't think so? Wouldn't like that! lol
I feel this has been the point made with regards to the tampering with electrical adapters that are plugged directly into the mains supply.
I have many adapters in my house and do not want to take them apart to see how they tick, so to speak.
Regards
Mandy

 

[jimmyengland1000]

"I would say all electrical appliances that are plugged directly into the mains should be treated with respect and anyone with any common sense will realise you do not immerse in water or get a child to place there finger into any accessable holes so that should go without saying"


If you read the post properly, it's clear that I haven't suggested that anyone get a child to put a finger in there or deliberately immerse in water. And no, it doesn't go without saying (read any electrical device instructions). What I posted is perfectly valid.... ie with a charger modified in the way that I have suggested, take extra care that it doesn't come into contact with water or is accessible by a child. Most definitely it does need saying.

By the way, this is the last time I'll be responding in any way whatsoever to any of your posts (although somehow I don't think this will be reciprocated). They add nothing to my technical knowledge or riding experience, you see. No doubt, I'll be posting more on the site, including more technical suggestions but having to re-state the obvious, be deliberately (or is it maybe not deliberate???) misunderstood about very simple things or indulging in a verbal Wimbledon over totally pointless things isn't where it's at for me. So no further responses from now on, although please do have the last word on this.

 

[jimmyengland1000]

I noticed that from your photo Jimmy, there is obviously no risk there compared with plenty of consumer equipment like TVs and monitors.

I think David is just playing safe, but ironically his new charger has ventilation holes in the mains input area, with live soldered connections behind them.

It also uses a euro lead, these aren't shuttered and leave the socket connections open, live and exposed when unplugged from the charger while still plugged into the mains as many people do.
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Yes, I wasn't sure if the new charger had ventilation holes but assumed that it would, in that a fan needs to circulate air and draw it from somewhere. Yes, those euro leads are not good. Many laptop chargers and loads of other devices use them, I've noticed, and, as you say, the unshuttered sockets on them present quite a hazard re things being poked in them, especially by children. I've managed to eradicate them from all devices in my house, for that very reason. The Wisper charger (non-fan variety) doesn't use a euro lead so is, in my opinion, already superior in that respect to the new one. My gorgonzola charger actually has no exposed wires or connections, so it seems superior to the new one in that respect too then..... I was thinking of fitting a computer cooling fan originally but the charger now runs so cool that it doesn't seem worth it.....

 

[flecc]

Yes, I think the oddest use for the euro connector is on electric kettles. They are routinely unplugged by millions with the mains still connected, the kettle filled with water and then sploshed down next to the live connector which is them plugged in, sometimes with wet hands!

Bu that is apparently ok.
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[jimmyengland1000]

Or the sort of kettle with a central boss in the base containing wires which are permanently live. A mishap with a full kettle or sloshing some water on the base whilst putting the kettle on it and, hey presto! Yep, I reckon in comparison, that used correctly my gorgonzola charger is pretty harmless....

 

[Wisper Bikes]

New Charger

I noticed that from your photo Jimmy, there is obviously no risk there compared with plenty of consumer equipment like TVs and monitors.

I think David is just playing safe, but ironically his new charger has ventilation holes in the mains input area, with live soldered connections behind them.

It also uses a euro lead, these aren't shuttered and leave the socket connections open, live and exposed when unplugged from the charger while still plugged into the mains as many people do.
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Thanks for this Flecc, I have sent your comments to the factory for consideration, I will post their reply.

And regarding playing it safe, yes, better safe than sorry! I am sure Jimmy is very competent and it looks OK but I have to think of my insurance and would hate to be responsible for killing off any of my wonderful customers

Best regards David

 

[flecc]

Your new charger is perfectly safe by normal standards David, as the factory will no doubt confirm. It's probably the most widely sold of all e-bike chargers and it's almost impossible to make ventilated electrical equipment totally safe against any eventuality, the point that both Jimmy and myself are making. It's appropriate that forums like this have technical content and modification suggestions and it has to be assumed that anyone wanting to pursue a suggestion feels themselves sufficiently knowledgeable to do that.

The fact is that our homes are full of equipment which is far less safe that either Jimmy's modified charger or your new charger, such are the variations in safety measures, these applied with the design needs of the appliance having to be put before the optimum safety.
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[flecc]

Here you are David, to equip you for your own judgement, here below is a photo of the rear of your new charger type opened. You see below the euro plug an array of ventilation holes, and below that a metal ended glass fuse.

That uninsulated fuse which sits just 5 mm behind all those holes carries the full mains voltage.

Lethal yes? But the fact is there are tens of thousands of these chargers safely in use worldwide. Some versions don't have the fuse in that position, but on those there's a bare live mains connection just behind.

That's why I feel Jimmy's effort is safety itself in comparison.
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[Wisper Bikes]

Chargers

Thanks Flecc, it's amazing. Especially your earlier point about the house hold kettles. If you had the will and a couple of screw drivers you could tap in directly to your household electricity through a socket.

Best regards David

 

[Ian]

Interesting points and I agree on the comments about the proximity of the fuse to the ventilation holes and the points about the euro-connector. However the HP charger does carry both EU CE and US Underwriters Laboratories certification which means that independant certification bodies have examined, abused and poked things into the charger and found it's safety to be at least acceptable. Likewise with IEC connector which in addition carries good old BS certification.

In reality anything can be abused to the point where it's dangerous and some responsibility rests with the user to ensure that electrical appliances are used safely.

 

[flecc]

Absolutely true Ian, in line with my remark on the difficulty of making ventilated equipment completely safe.

However I suppose this also raises another interesting point about the true safety value of the EU and CE certifications, given the proximity and accessibility of that mains fuse. A simple fibreboard flap could have insulated it at almost zero cost without blocking cooling and that could have so easily been suggested.
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[Ian]

I have to admit to being puzzled about the certification in relation to that fuse, I have three of those chargers and they all have the fuse in that position. I can only assume that the holes are considered small enough not to be a problem, it isn't how I would design it though.

I have personally witnessed the testing of gas appliances for CE certification and can say it is very thorough. I know of one case where a gas water heater was refused a certificate when it was found that an almost impossible combination of wind speed and direction across the flue could cause improper combustion, not really relavent to battery chargers but it does show the thoroughness of testing.