Will the end of full speed throttles in January 2016 cause a rush to buy.

[torrent99]

More worryingly would be after an accident when the fine toothed comb might come out. (To prove some sort of liability)

 

[jonathan75]

The European Commission wrote back to me. I've made a couple of comments and pasted the email below.

It looks like

• constructors of large-run ebikes can modify the bikes after the moment they're sold, to include a throttle, if UK law allows (because 168/2013 is addressed only at manufacturers of large runs of identical new bikes and doesn't stop the UK making rules concerning other categories);
• the UK is free to create its own SVA rules and SVA-exempt categories, such as allowing individuals or companies to build single (or short-run?) bikes with throttles on, if it chooses.
  
• If UK rules allow, individuals can modify their type-approved and non-type-approved bikes to add a throttle (this creates a different bike). There is no EU requirement for an SVA for a bike just because it has a throttle.

Just an additional note for those interested in using their bikes abroad. I think there may be an error in the advice below, where it says "These small series or individual vehicle approvals must not be accepted by other Member States as the requirements are not harmonised." I think this should say "must be accepted", under the Cassis rule. I've written to ask.

My original email concerned

'Dear Mr ********,

Thank you for contacting us. As your enquiry was rather complex, we had to consult specialised services in order to prepare the answer. We apologise for the delay and any inconvenience this may have caused you. Please find below the reply from the responsible Directorate General within the European Commission:

“Thank you for your interest in type-approval legislation. Type-approval legislation such as Regulation (EU) No 168/2013[1] is directed towards manufacturers of larger series of new vehicles and allows to approve a vehicle type once by demonstrating its compliance with the harmonised approval requirements in one Member State. If approved the vehicle type may then be placed on the market and registered without additional testing in other Member States; this is known as mutual recognition of type-approvals. The vehicle manufacturer shall provide the vehicle owner with a paper copy of the certificate of conformity together with the new vehicle, usually at point of sale which has to be accepted by the registration authorities in any Member State for first registration of the new vehicle without any further testing. Other methods to approve a new vehicle are small series and individual approval which fall under the competencies of the Member States and for which each Member State may have its own set of approval rules. These small series or individual vehicle approvals must not be accepted by other Member States as the requirements are not harmonised. Again, these rules only apply for new vehicles.

As you have constructed a unique vehicle, which does not seem to be subject to EU type-approval requirements you may want to contact one of the approval authorities listed on our website to be informed on the particular national requirements that are requested before you may register the vehicle, please see this page:
http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/10942 “

Original query: "
I am a full-time student in the UK, writing because I have long wished to travel in Europe by bicycle on holiday, and need to find out what rights the EU provides me to travel within the EU, using a bicycle I have converted to electric assistance. A severe disability (fibromyalgia) causing lasting pain in my knees has unexpectedly forced me to install a hand-throttle, because I can only pedal intermittently. Many, many others are in my exact situation. My bicycle is sub-25kph, sub-250w. This category of vehicle does not seem to be included or described in either Directive 2002/24/EC nor the current Regulation 168/2013. Some member states appear to impose on me, onerous conditions including insurance, registration, and helmet wearing (e.g. the Netherlands). Furthermore, prior to registration, such a bicycle must be approved in the UK by the authorities, a process which can take months if not years, and cost a lot of money.
1) Does EU law permit me to use my bicycle in other member states without additional arrangements e.g. licencing, registration, insurance?
2) If no, then what would be the least onerous route for me to fulfil the conditions the Regulation sets out for people in my position, so I can use the bicycle abroad?
3) What is the legal basis for the answer to (1)?
4) If the answer to (1) is yes, how in practice can I enjoy this right if member state domestic law seems to forbid it?
5) If (1) is a no, how can the Council and Parliament justify what appears to be an infringement of TFEU Arts 28 and 58 which does not fulfil any of the requirements of proportionality, nor the obligations on the Institutions to which EUCFR Art 26 (see Art 15(3)ESC for scope) (and possibly Art 21) give rise?
6) If (1) is no, why does 168/2013 Art 2(2)(b) not help me?
7) If the answer to (1) is no, I call upon the Union institutions to please urgently remedy this proportionality- and Charter-non-compliant interference with Treaty rights which 168/2013 must represent."

 

[shemozzle999]

Good work Jonathan.

Pass the parcel back to the SVA then!

I wonder if front and rear hub motor bicycles are considered EPACs as these motors do not provide any assistance to the pedals?

 

[Ken Ferguson]

I wonder whether we are not getting ourselves in a lather over very little here. Having reread the EU Directive the following would seem to be the case.

1) It is true that pedelecs (E bikes without a throttle) are specifically listed as being outside the scope of the Directive but then so are "self balancing vehicles". Can I conclude from this that I can legally ride my Segway on public roads? My point here is that there is a disconnect between what the bureaucrats have written and what law enforcement in individual countries will permit.

2) The chain of compliance for conforming with the EWVTA legislation relates to vehicle registration. To register a new vehicle you need a Certificate of Conformity and that is why people go through the appalling type approval process- so that their customers can get a licence plate and legally drive their vehicle on European roads. As nobody is suggesting that E bikes need to be registered vehicles, there is no motivation to have them type approved. What is the customer going to do with the CoC? Frame it and put it on his bedroom wall? Type approval without the requirement for registration is illogical and practically unenforceable.

3) The EAPC compliant Model 15 bike sold by my Company can be ridden as a pedelec but has a throttle. Presumably if we supplied it to customers with the throttle disconnected it would be perfectly road legal? If any individual customer decided to reconnect it that would be a matter for them but of course if they did so and were stopped by plod for unenthusiastic pedaling they could always claim to have bought the bike in 2015 on Ebay. Would they then be compelled to prove they didn't?

If you go to any holiday resort on the Med you will find tourists dashing around on little electric bikes and scooters operated on the throttle. These bikes have 1000w motors, no pedals and make no pretence at complying with any regulation. As I said, I wonder whether we are not getting ourselves in a lather over very little here.

Ken Ferguson

[link removed by admin]
(No promotional links to your site please Ken - this is reserved for paid up 'trade members' supporting Pedelecs. )

 

[acm2000]

it was the main reason i got mine now rather than waiting, not that i use it often but from standing start at traffic lights its great to **** off drivers who look at you like you slept with their daughter

 

[flecc]

I wonder whether we are not getting ourselves in a lather over very little here. Having reread the EU Directive the following would seem to be the case.

1) It is true that pedelecs (E bikes without a throttle) are specifically listed as being outside the scope of the Directive but then so are "self balancing vehicles". Can I conclude from this that I can legally ride my Segway on public roads? My point here is that there is a disconnect between what the bureaucrats have written and what law enforcement in individual countries will permit.

2) The chain of compliance for conforming with the EWVTA legislation relates to vehicle registration. To register a new vehicle you need a Certificate of Conformity and that is why people go through the appalling type approval process- so that their customers can get a licence plate and legally drive their vehicle on European roads. As nobody is suggesting that E bikes need to be registered vehicles, there is no motivation to have them type approved. What is the customer going to do with the CoC? Frame it and put it on his bedroom wall? Type approval without the requirement for registration is illogical and practically unenforceable.

3) The EAPC compliant Model 15 bike sold by my Company can be ridden as a pedelec but has a throttle. Presumably if we supplied it to customers with the throttle disconnected it would be perfectly road legal? If any individual customer decided to reconnect it that would be a matter for them but of course if they did so and were stopped by plod for unenthusiastic pedaling they could always claim to have bought the bike in 2015 on Ebay. Would they then be compelled to prove they didn't?

If you go to any holiday resort on the Med you will find tourists dashing around on little electric bikes and scooters operated on the throttle. These bikes have 1000w motors, no pedals and make no pretence at complying with any regulation. As I said, I wonder whether we are not getting ourselves in a lather over very little here.

Ken Ferguson
www.eriderbikes.com

A yes and no to this though Ken. The DfT's IVS division have ruled that an EAPC with throttle needs to be type approved for use in Great Britain, (somewhat oddly excluding Northern Ireland!), but I agree that enforcement is impractical. However, this ruling isn't likely to be accepted in many mainland EU countries, if any, limiting those who take their e-bikes to the continent.

And we now find that in Spain the police are coming down hard on non-conforming pedelecs with hefty fines, so not all the Med countries are so easy. That sort of enforcement could easily and quickly spread to others.

But overall I agree that in Britain it's doubtful there is any problem or will be for a long time yet.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

And we now find that in Spain the police are coming down hard on non-conforming pedelecs with hefty fines

No veo nada en diarios...

If you do go to Spain and you are English respect the law to the letter would be my advice. You can thank your unkempt youth and their binge drinking, jumping from hotel windows into pools (or missing the pools...) public nudity and other general bad behavior for giving your country a bad reputation on the coast.

I think that the police in Barcelona and Benidorm etc. have been cracking down on any kind of bikes going too fast on footpaths from what I saw on the TV news last week. They have probably caught some very naughty Brit tourists/residents who have been called to order because of their illegal throttles. I am not surprised and or worried for myself because I am very careful when in San Sebastian, I even stop for red lights on the cycle path - I am one of the few...

They have also been cracking down on those one wheel thingies which are very popular in tourist towns.

 

[Yamdude]

Throttles, in no small part due to the fact i've rode motorcycles most of my life, i like a throttle on an ebike. I feel more in control and sometimes due to my disability i dont want to pedal at all.
If the throttle is removed from all ebikes sold in the UK, it will probably make me lose interest in them and i'll just stick to my motorcycles.

 

[jonathan75]

The DfT's IVS division have ruled that an EAPC with throttle needs to be type approved for use in Great Britain,
.

If I'm right, type approval only applies to the sale of new bikes. Could that mean that a retailer is free to fit a throttle for the customer after the bike has been sold, ie is no longer new? Just thinking how to help the commenter you replied to.

Although maybe I've got confused. Didn't the DfT give some sort of special dispensation for throttles, and L1e-A without sva or so?

 

[jonathan75]

Good work Jonathan.

Pass the parcel back to the SVA then!

I wonder if front and rear hub motor bicycles are considered EPACs as these motors do not provide any assistance to the pedals?

Interesting q. Do you have a citation for the law so we can check the wording?

Re sva I've got confused and forgotten what the UK rules are. Didn't the DfT write to you or someone else saying we were ok to use throttles on conversions or so? Do you remember if there was also some special dispensation about L1e-A?

 

[flecc]

If I'm right, type approval only applies to the sale of new bikes. Could that mean that a retailer is free to fit a throttle for the customer after the bike has been sold, ie is no longer new? Just thinking how to help the commenter you replied to.

Although maybe I've got confused. Didn't the DfT give some sort of special dispensation for throttles, and L1e-A without sva or so?

There was a temporary dispensation pending the change in the law, that in the form of police forces instructed not to prosecute 250 watt e-bikes. However that made no mention of throttles since the EAPC regulation stated 200 watts with no mention of control methods. The change in the law on 6th April 2015 made that dispensation no longer necessary.

Since the introduction of the new law, the DfT's IVS division have issued a letter stating that e-bikes conforming in all respects to the EU pedelec law other than having a fully acting throttle will still be treated as EAPCs, but only if they are type approved, this being necessary to conform to EU law.

Since the EU type approval law only exempts conforming pedelecs from being motor vehicles, it follows that any kit/privately produced one must also conform or it will be a motor vehicle in law.

I believe all this translates into one of two situations for use in the UK. Either kit/privately produced e-bikes are motor vehicles, or they are treated as EAPC's if single vehicle approved, this latter interpretation needing clarification/agreement from the DfT.
.

 

[jonathan75]

Since the EU type approval law only exempts conforming pedelecs from being motor vehicles, it follows that any kit/privately produced one must also conform or it will be a motor vehicle in law.
.

Thanks for your helpful post.

This bit I am not sure about though. Type approval EU law seems to be addressed at large manufacturers of new bikes only; 'competence', i.e. the job and power of making law, in the areas not covered by the type approval law, seem to be firmly in the hands of the UK govt. I.e. UK govt's hands are free to make what laws it wants, I believe.

Those latter UK laws of course might be challenged by an individual or a company on the grounds that (to confuse things here...) they DO affect free movement of goods and services across EU borders, contrary to the Charter and proportionality, however, in the first instance I think they are in the hands of the UK.

This is supported by the two bold sections in the letter I pasted. But I might be wrong about all this. Confusing!

 

[flecc]

Thanks for your helpful post.

This bit I am not sure about though. Type approval EU law seems to be addressed at large manufacturers of new bikes only; 'competence', i.e. the job and power of making law, in the areas not covered by the type approval law, seem to be firmly in the hands of the UK govt. I.e. UK govt's hands are free to make what laws it wants, I believe.

Those latter UK laws of course might be challenged by an individual or a company on the grounds that (to confuse things here...) they DO affect free movement of goods and services across EU borders, contrary to the Charter and proportionality, however, in the first instance I think they are in the hands of the UK.

This is supported by the two bold sections in the letter I pasted. But I might be wrong about all this. Confusing!

Altbough Type Approval appears to be aimed at manufacturers, I'm fairly confident that there is no statement to that effect. I add to that the fact that the DfT have on a various occasions stated online that the equivalent for "Grey" Imports, Home Builds etc is Single Vehicle Approval, also that all EU member countries have these same arrangements.

From that I believe the EU as well as the DfT regard Type Approval and SVA as equivalent technical approvals in the construction sense for safe use in public places. I see that as very different from "usage", e.g. such things as where one can ride an e-bike.

If that is correct, the former affects whether an e-bike can even be on a road in public and probably applies EU wide, the latter affects only how an approved e-bike is ridden in public and that is essentially a national matter.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

Probably the easiest answer would be to design a controller with separate handlebar switch which can redirect the switched output of the crank sensor to either power up the handlebar display for normal pedelec operation or when switched make the full throttle active, both require the pedals to be turning but gives the rider the option to choose which method of power operation he or she prefers given the riding conditions.

 

[trex]

Probably the easiest answer would be to design a controller with separate handlebar switch which can redirect the switched output of the crank sensor to either power up the handlebar display for normal pedelec operation or when switched make the full throttle active, both require the pedals to be turning but gives the rider the option to choose which method of power operation he or she prefers given the riding conditions.

what do you expect the response time to be from the moment someone stops pedalling to motor cutting out?
Whilst it's normal to expect in the case of torque sensor input that to be near instantaneous because most torque sensored bikes do not have brake sensor, when applied to a bike with brake sensor and throttle input, that response is tied to the pedelec rotational sensor. What can you expect? there is no regulation about this lag time. As an example, the Woosh Gallego implements this scheme, the lag time is about 5 seconds.

 

[jonathan75]

what do you expect the response time to be from the moment someone stops pedalling to motor cutting out?
Whilst it's normal to expect in the case of torque sensor input that to be near instantaneous because most torque sensored bikes do not have brake sensor, when applied to a bike with brake sensor and throttle input, that response is tied to the pedelec rotational sensor. What can you expect? there is no regulation about this lag time. As an example, the Woosh Gallego implements this scheme, the lag time is about 5 seconds.

This thing about pedalling and cutouts, isn't that an EU thing? I think that only applies therefore to type approval if so (am I wrong?) Going to post something else in a second which I think is illuminating, email from the European Commish.

 

[jonathan75]

Follow-up email from the European Commission. They seem to say that member states can make the rules that they want re non-type-approved (i.e. non-large-run) bikes. It's only type-approved bikes which their rules relate to. So the UK can if it wants legislate for throttles to be OK with or without an SVA on small- or single-run bikes used on roads & bike paths. And Holland or any other EU member state if it wants can legislate for them to be not OK either way, if it chooses. That's my interpretation anyway. Does that sound about right?

I still can't understand whether an SVA will be needed for a single runs or short runs of throttle pedelecs in the UK built after 2016 or if the DfT was going to give us all a dispensation. Sorry if I've not being paying attention, I read everything but maybe have forgotten.

"Dear Mr ********,

Thank you for your follow-up question.

We would like to repeat that only if there are harmonised requirements set-out in EU type-approval legislation the principle of mutual recognition applies, which is only the case for vehicles produced in larger series by a vehicle manufacturer. In the cases of national small series or national individual approvals, these approvals must not be accepted by other Member States as the requirements or the stringency of the requirements may differ, based on the national need and preferences. In any case if your vehicle is approved in accordance with the individual approval requirements in the UK and it is registered there you may use it anywhere providing the traffic law rules are respected, which are set out in the different Member States national legislations.

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions.

With kind regards,
EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre
http://europa.eu - your shortcut to the EU!

Disclaimer
Please note that the information provided by EUROPE DIRECT is not legally binding.

 

[tommie]

..and what does our local Assemblys have to say on this, ie the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland regional Assemblys? Have they any say at all or is it all taken from Westminster?

Or Strasbourg!!

 

[flecc]

..and what does our local Assemblys have to say on this, ie the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland regional Assemblys? Have they any say at all or is it all taken from Westminster?

Or Strasbourg!!

Since the EAPC regulations are a UK measure, Westmister rulings apply for all nations in the UK.
.

 

[flecc]

I still can't understand whether an SVA will be needed for a single runs or short runs of throttle pedelecs in the UK built after 2016 or if the DfT was going to give us all a dispensation. Sorry if I've not being paying attention, I read everything but maybe have forgotten.

Thanks for the information Jonathan.

I'm sure an SVA can only apply to a single bike, not a small run of production.

They would need a dispensation measure.
.