Woah flash....respect !!
As for Bradley Wiggins , having just seen it on the news I was thinking exactly the same thing (seemingly it was a woman driver
)However, to be brutally honest I was hoping for someone more fanciable
Lynda
Will e-bikes ever enjoy mainstream popularity in the UK?
- Thread starter james@justebikes.co.uk
- Start date
As for Bradley Wiggins , having just seen it on the news I was thinking exactly the same thing (seemingly it was a woman driver
)However, to be brutally honest I was hoping for someone more fanciable
Lynda
And that is the way BEBA approach our issues, by the use of a lobbyist representing our interests in parliament. I don't think he's costly, but doubt he would like being described as cheap!
I disagree completely with the idea that trying to use infrastructure to separate cyclists from other vehicles is the way to make cycling safer. In fact I'd argue the opposite.
The thing that makes roads dangerous for competent cyclists is other road users, in particular people not showing due care and consideration when driving motor vehicles. Part of this is fuelled by the idea that some drivers seem to have that the roads belong to cars and bicycles should not be on them, this idea is only strengthened by the existence of (often inadequate) cycling infrastructure.
A cycling infrastructure that truly separated cycles from motor traffic would face much the same obstacles as building a network of narrow gauge railways would. What do you do when the two networks cross? At the moment the usual “solution” is to drop the cycle route so the traffic is mixed once more (in the case of those cycle lanes painted along the side of the road this results in there being dedicated cycle route over junctions, just when they would be most useful).
Without the complete separation of cycles and motor vehicles cyclists will still have to mix with cars and the danger will remain as long as the culture on our roads is such that cyclists are treated as intruding nuisances rather than legitimate traffic. If the culture were to change so that (for the most part) all vehicles were treated with due consideration by all road users then the need for dedicated cycling provision on safety grounds would be all but removed. But it’s much easier to paint a line along the road and call the gutter a “cycle lane” than it would be to change the culture on our roads.
It is nice to be able to relax on a designated cycle way now and again and truly enjoy the pursuit..its a fiction to think anything is going to change any time soon.... In fact as economy shrinks and people feel more desperate the situation on the roads will probably deteriorate further at least until the oil runs out
Italians drive like maniacs but they give cyclists a wide berth..why is this. I think it is because they are more family oroeintated and considerate. why can I spend 6 weeks cycling in Italy without incident and within a day back here have 2 near misses and shouting matches.
Italians drive like maniacs but they give cyclists a wide berth..why is this. I think it is because they are more family oroeintated and considerate. why can I spend 6 weeks cycling in Italy without incident and within a day back here have 2 near misses and shouting matches.
Good response Patrick, I totally agree with you.. I think changing the culture towards cyclists from motorists will be difficult, if not impossible.. it is a major problem and the government doesn't seem to take it seriously enough, with the amount of cyclist deaths on our roads..
Saying that, not all motorists have this "we pay tax, we own the road" attitude and see cyclists as a nuisance that shouldn't be on their *their* roads.. I encounter plenty of considerate motorists who give me plenty of space and even slow down when over taking etc.. And then I also encounter those who zoom past you with just a few inches space while doing 40mph..complete idiots.
I try to avoid riding on busy roads as much as possible personally, that's the good thing about e-bikes it gives us that flexibility to take short-cuts and use footpaths..
I never considered the road safety side of things in being a limiter on e-bike sales, but I suppose it could be a major factor too..there's a lot you can do to keep yourself safe though..wearing hi vis clothing for example.
Just as an aside to this discussion.. how many e-bike owners would object to the idea of paying a lower rate of road tax (i.e. £30-£50 a year) and perhaps having bikes registered if they use the roads, if the government pledged to improve the infrastructure for cyclists and/or raise public safety awareness for cyclists using our roads? Perhaps with cyclists paying the tax too, motorists would take a different attitude? Perhaps not!
Saying that, not all motorists have this "we pay tax, we own the road" attitude and see cyclists as a nuisance that shouldn't be on their *their* roads.. I encounter plenty of considerate motorists who give me plenty of space and even slow down when over taking etc.. And then I also encounter those who zoom past you with just a few inches space while doing 40mph..complete idiots.
I try to avoid riding on busy roads as much as possible personally, that's the good thing about e-bikes it gives us that flexibility to take short-cuts and use footpaths..
I never considered the road safety side of things in being a limiter on e-bike sales, but I suppose it could be a major factor too..there's a lot you can do to keep yourself safe though..wearing hi vis clothing for example.
Just as an aside to this discussion.. how many e-bike owners would object to the idea of paying a lower rate of road tax (i.e. £30-£50 a year) and perhaps having bikes registered if they use the roads, if the government pledged to improve the infrastructure for cyclists and/or raise public safety awareness for cyclists using our roads? Perhaps with cyclists paying the tax too, motorists would take a different attitude? Perhaps not!
Thats all well and good Patrick but for all that, you still cant seriously say that separate cycle paths are more dangerous than being in traffic on the roads......
Lynda
Lynda
NO WAY Paul......more tax ?....government pledges ?.......some motorists changing attitudes ?...... ROFLMAO.......I dont think so..........
Lynda
no need for that, as has been discussed before on here we need to follow the example of some European countries. And put the responsibility/blame for all accidents on vehicle drivers, unless argued in court......They will soon learn to give us all a wide berth then!
its called "strict liability"
Strict liability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
what happen here is that you have to prove negligence (if your alive to do it) and why I bought a video camera
its called "strict liability"
Strict liability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
what happen here is that you have to prove negligence (if your alive to do it) and why I bought a video camera
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Also totally agree Patrick. In any case, our tiny island with 62 million people crammed into high density clumps can never have an independent cycling structure, there just isn't the space and unlikely to ever be the money to achieve one anyway.
We all of us co-exist peacefully on pavements, fat or thin, tall or short, young or old, blind or sighted, carrying cases, pushing prams, handing out leaflets, collecting for charity, walking dogs.
We just need to realise that the same attitude needs to be applied to the roads. We aren't fighting for road space, we're sharing it.
We all of us co-exist peacefully on pavements, fat or thin, tall or short, young or old, blind or sighted, carrying cases, pushing prams, handing out leaflets, collecting for charity, walking dogs.
We just need to realise that the same attitude needs to be applied to the roads. We aren't fighting for road space, we're sharing it.
Maybe a change to the law approach then, with tougher punishments for careless driving by motorists? For example, if a vehicle becomes too close and doesn't allow sufficient distance, instant penalty points and fixed penalty fine? That might encourage more e-bikers to ride with their cameras to catch bad motorists!no need for that, as has been discussed before on here we need to follow the example of some European countries. And put the responsibility/blame for all accidents on vehicle drivers, unless argued in court......They will soon learn to give us all a wide berth then!
its called "strict liability"
Strict liability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
what happen here is that you have to prove negligence (if your alive to do it) and why I bought a video camera
On a different subject, the weather is not bad lately is it! Really mild for the time of year with some sunshine and blue skies I'm just about to take my Mezzo out for a quick ride.. I'm going to test my mini MD80 camera which I've mounted on the handlebar.
I can't ride my JetStream as I've removed the rear brake (which was broke anyway when it arrived) and I forgot it's illegal to ride with only one brake!!
I'm just about to take my Mezzo out for a quick ride.. I'm going to test my mini MD80 camera which I've mounted on the handlebar. I can't ride my JetStream as I've removed the rear brake (which was broke anyway when it arrived) and I forgot it's illegal to ride with only one brake!!
maybe we should use the american way and get a gun...............
I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
That depends on the cycle path and the road in question. Cycle lanes painted on the outer edge of roads are often dangerous to use because the put you out of sight and out of mind of drivers, so you'd be safer out in the main flow of traffic where you're much harder to ignore. And there's a local off road section of National Cycle Route 1 which I find more perilous (and much slower) to ride because of the condition its surface than the alternative along a relatively busy stretch of road with reasonably maintained tarmac.Thats all well and good Patrick but for all that, you still cant seriously say that separate cycle paths are more dangerous than being in traffic on the roads......
Lynda
In general using a well paved motor traffic free cycle path would be safer than riding along the road, but such paths are few and far between so there's unlikely to be one to take you to where you need, and it would be impractical to try and build a network of them because of all the roads that are in the way.
Yes I know Patrick, but I dont really count cycle lanes painted on the side of the road as cycle paths, they are certainly still very dangerous.
I am talking about truly traffic free paths.
Every new bit of road building should now have them included and there are still plenty of places where they would be able to add them.
The whole point is that they are still few and far between outside modern urban areas and disused railway lines etc, it WOULD certainly be impossible to build a network to everywhere you wanted to go.....but we still need to continue to build more to encourage people to use their bikes.
Traffic fear is still, I think, the main put off for the general public....and yes, tougher traffic laws would help but if the government is serious in its concern for the nation to get fitter then surely the least they should do is put their (our) money where their mouths are and make a concerted effort to improve the truly traffic free routes of this country as far as is humanly possible, instead of painting token white lines in the gutter where they can.......mistakenly thinking they can fool us into thinking that they are doing their best.....wrong....its not enough....not nearly enough !
Lynda
I am talking about truly traffic free paths.
Every new bit of road building should now have them included and there are still plenty of places where they would be able to add them.
The whole point is that they are still few and far between outside modern urban areas and disused railway lines etc, it WOULD certainly be impossible to build a network to everywhere you wanted to go.....but we still need to continue to build more to encourage people to use their bikes.
Traffic fear is still, I think, the main put off for the general public....and yes, tougher traffic laws would help but if the government is serious in its concern for the nation to get fitter then surely the least they should do is put their (our) money where their mouths are and make a concerted effort to improve the truly traffic free routes of this country as far as is humanly possible, instead of painting token white lines in the gutter where they can.......mistakenly thinking they can fool us into thinking that they are doing their best.....wrong....its not enough....not nearly enough !
Lynda
This is one myth that needs exploding. Existing roads infrastructure repairs and maintenance is funded by local authority community charges....Council Tax. Everybody who pays Council Tax contributes to the upkeep of the roads, including those who never drive cars or ride bicycles. Major new road building is funded by Government grants, and once adopted by the County Councils, is then maintained with funding provided by Council Tax payers.
Should any government really want to improve road safety for cyclists, and pedestrians for that matter, they could start with a public information advert on national television clearly explaining that all council tax payers have a right to use the roads...not just those who pay Vehicle Excise Duty. The vast bulk of which goes toward supporting the Welfare State.
"Should cyclists pay to use the roads"?...we already do.
And that has been done in many cases of course. Trouble is, most of the population live in large towns and cities and it's the getting to the added cyclepath routes and at the other end getting from them to the town/city address destination.
If there's a mile or miles of heavy urban traffic on narrow inadequate roads to get to the new facility and to leave it at the other end, it still won't be used by other than the odd dedicated cyclist. If there isn't door-to-door safety, the majority still won't consider cycling.
Yes exactly Flecc...thats why we have to try harder to push to get this done in as many cases as possible.
Its no use any of us being defeatists and saying thats how it is........surely its a case of pushing harder for what needs to be done and not just accepting how inadequate things are at the moment, if we all just sit back and say oh, woe is me, isnt it a shame that it isnt better, then we wont ever get anywhere, and that doesnt just go for getting more traffic free cycle paths.
We need a bit more 'get up and go'..... a bit more proactive attitude.... instead of apathy.
We cyclists need to turn more into lions than mice.
Bradley Wiggins could well be the public figure to help, but lets wait till he gets out of hospital
Lynda
Its no use any of us being defeatists and saying thats how it is........surely its a case of pushing harder for what needs to be done and not just accepting how inadequate things are at the moment, if we all just sit back and say oh, woe is me, isnt it a shame that it isnt better, then we wont ever get anywhere, and that doesnt just go for getting more traffic free cycle paths.
We need a bit more 'get up and go'..... a bit more proactive attitude.... instead of apathy.
We cyclists need to turn more into lions than mice.
Bradley Wiggins could well be the public figure to help, but lets wait till he gets out of hospital
Lynda
Not defeatist, more realist. The problem I posted in my last post can only be solved with bulldozers, and no number of celebrities will persuade any governments to start compulsory purchasing and bulldozing of peoples homes and businesses. In our car culture country, they'd get lynched.
Im sure there are plenty of places that dont need bulldozers to solve the problem......just need to have the will to find the way.....and start with the easy ones....
Lynda
Lynda
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