Except their makers defeat that with wheel rotation magnetic sensors, or like the Impulse 2 units, having them terminally fail after a certain number of times exceeding 17mph.
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Why Derailleurs gears?
- Thread starter vidtek
- Start date
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One factor derailleurs have in their favour is the small steps between gears that can be achieved. I had a SRAM Spectro 7-speed hub on my commuter and it was pretty good, but once my knees started playing up, I needed something with smaller steps between ratios. A Rohloff hub would have achieved that, but have you seen how much they cost?! For about £150, I converted the bike to a good quality, 27-speed set up with small steps up and down between ratios.
On the other hand, I'm about to convert it to an Alfine 11-speed set up in the hope that that will do the trick. One factor in hub gears' favour is that you can adjust ratios relatively simply by swapping the rear sprocket. Mine also has a rear disc brake, and that is mainly why I'm doing the swap.
Horses for courses, but price is a major reason why derailleurs win out here. The Shimano Tourney equipment on my late Woosh was probably very cheap (but was also rather too basic for its intended purpose).
On the other hand, I'm about to convert it to an Alfine 11-speed set up in the hope that that will do the trick. One factor in hub gears' favour is that you can adjust ratios relatively simply by swapping the rear sprocket. Mine also has a rear disc brake, and that is mainly why I'm doing the swap.
Horses for courses, but price is a major reason why derailleurs win out here. The Shimano Tourney equipment on my late Woosh was probably very cheap (but was also rather too basic for its intended purpose).
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Deleted member 4366
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That's a strange comment. It doesn't match my experience at all. I've done 1000s of miles with Shimano Tourney and never had a problem and never needed adjustment apart from initial setting up.
What was it that caused you to have a low opinion of them? What bike was it on?
@d8veh: Saying it's a strange comment seems to be a strange comment to me, even if you disagree with me. It sounds very judgemental. Surely all opinions expressed here are subjective...?
Tourney is Shimano's cheapest offering in their MTB range. Here's what Bikeradar says:
The range starts with the most budget Tourney, which is usually found on kids’ and entry-level bikes. While it's included in the mountain bike groupsets, we don’t consider Tourney to be off-road worthy outside of occasional and light use.
The Tourney rear derailleur on my Woosh was already showing signs of being worn out after 1000 miles, so I replaced it with a vastly superior (& more expensive) SRAM X5 one I had lying around. The Tourney was simply not up to the job of a mid-drive set up, IMO, where more strain is placed upon the transmission.
Tourney is Shimano's cheapest offering in their MTB range. Here's what Bikeradar says:
The range starts with the most budget Tourney, which is usually found on kids’ and entry-level bikes. While it's included in the mountain bike groupsets, we don’t consider Tourney to be off-road worthy outside of occasional and light use.
The Tourney rear derailleur on my Woosh was already showing signs of being worn out after 1000 miles, so I replaced it with a vastly superior (& more expensive) SRAM X5 one I had lying around. The Tourney was simply not up to the job of a mid-drive set up, IMO, where more strain is placed upon the transmission.
I use an Acera and can't see the need for anything more "high end".
Checking just now I have come across over a half dozen different versions of the Tourney varying in price from 6€ up to 14€ (same price as Acera) so you may not be talking about the same Tourney...
Checking just now I have come across over a half dozen different versions of the Tourney varying in price from 6€ up to 14€ (same price as Acera) so you may not be talking about the same Tourney...
Same here, Acera on both my last two e-bikes. The Acera rear mechanism also handles megarange sprockets easily.
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I think I have at some point or other, owned/used/setup all of the cheaper Shimano ones. They are much of a muchness. When clean and lubed they are all perfectly functional.
I now strip, clean and rebuild mine every 1,000 mile or so.
In my experience most problems that are (falsely) attributed to the derailleur are actually due to:
Bad adjustment.
Stiff cable.
Mismatched or broken shifter.
Dirty or worn chain.
Worn sprockets.
I now strip, clean and rebuild mine every 1,000 mile or so.
In my experience most problems that are (falsely) attributed to the derailleur are actually due to:
Bad adjustment.
Stiff cable.
Mismatched or broken shifter.
Dirty or worn chain.
Worn sprockets.
....which is the point of the OP's question.
Derailleurs are cheap. Very cheap. Probably £15 to £50 (all in) on cheap bikes, and perfectly functional.
Shimano and Sturmey hubs cost more, and are less flexible. They require less maintenance, but add a significant additional cost. (About £50-£200 in my estimation). I have a couple of each, and the love them.
Rohloff? £800 for some hub gears? If you are planning a trip around the world then they're a good idea. If you just want to go to the shops they work out a bit expensive.
My gear hub cost about £200 inc new single speed chain.
I need around 300 links for my bike. Single speed that costs around £12.
9 speed its around £30 for the same. And as singles speed is heavier duty I expect it to last longer. So replacing chain and cassette costing over £70 a time I expect the hub to save money long term. As well as chaine gear at stops etc.
I need around 300 links for my bike. Single speed that costs around £12.
9 speed its around £30 for the same. And as singles speed is heavier duty I expect it to last longer. So replacing chain and cassette costing over £70 a time I expect the hub to save money long term. As well as chaine gear at stops etc.
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Deleted member 4366
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I get my 9 speed chains from Ebay for about £7. My present one has done about 4000 miles. My free-wheel gear set cost £6. It has also done 4000 miles. I've never done any adjustment in that time apart from when the gear cable (of unknown previous life because I bought it used) broke at the changer end and had to be replaced.
That bike I rescued from a skip had a rusty chain and the cheapest gearset and derailleur. I put some oil on the chain and adjusted the gears, then did 1000 miles on it without touching anything - no cleaning, no adjustment and no further oiling, even though it was winter and I had to ride it in the snow. It's an absolute myth that you have to pay a lot to get components that work properly. Cheap ones are perfectly adequate.
Your gearhub cost more than that whole bike by quite a bit.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/are-cheap-bikes-ok.19645/
I have two bikes, a Viking Ego with a six speed deraileur and a Brompton with both a three speed hub and two speed derailleur.
I bought the Brompton in 2004 and it still has the original chain, sprockets, and hub gear, which still functions OK as does the derailleur, there appears to be no way that you can lubricate the three speed hub gear, and the idler gears of the derailleur need regular cleaning, as being so close to the ground they get clogged with dirt and then it won't shift gear, but that is easily remedied.
The other bike the Viking has a derailleur which seems to work fine so long as you don't ride through fallen leaves and clog up the gear cluster.
To me they both seem perfectly satisfactory, though admittedly I am no longer strong enough to stress either system all that much!
My preference? for ease of use the click stop Shimano on the Viking.
No fuss!
I bought the Brompton in 2004 and it still has the original chain, sprockets, and hub gear, which still functions OK as does the derailleur, there appears to be no way that you can lubricate the three speed hub gear, and the idler gears of the derailleur need regular cleaning, as being so close to the ground they get clogged with dirt and then it won't shift gear, but that is easily remedied.
The other bike the Viking has a derailleur which seems to work fine so long as you don't ride through fallen leaves and clog up the gear cluster.
To me they both seem perfectly satisfactory, though admittedly I am no longer strong enough to stress either system all that much!
My preference? for ease of use the click stop Shimano on the Viking.
No fuss!
Hub for me, on the e-bike. Simply because it can have a full chaincase, and heavier chain so needs less looking after. E-bikes don't need as many gears either. If I were going long distance touring, then derailleur because it can be fixed at the side of the road, but I wouldn't use an e-bike for that.
I've just swapped a 27-speed set up on my Orbit converted bike to a Shimano Alfine 8-speed hub. It's a very different machine now, but I also had Marathon Plus tyres fitted* at the same time and they affect the ride.
Gear changes are instant with the Alfine, but the range of gears isn't as close as the 3x9-speed. Whether the change is for the better is something I'll judge after I've tweaked the control locations and ridden it more on my commute.
*The prospect of having to fix a puncture out on the road with a FWD wheel and a hub gear was not something I relished.
Gear changes are instant with the Alfine, but the range of gears isn't as close as the 3x9-speed. Whether the change is for the better is something I'll judge after I've tweaked the control locations and ridden it more on my commute.
*The prospect of having to fix a puncture out on the road with a FWD wheel and a hub gear was not something I relished.
it depends on terrain, mine is hilly so I need a 540% gear range, and mileage (I do about 100 to 150 a week) so its either Rohloff or derailleur. I have both and prefer Rohloff (crunching changes, starting in too high a gear, frequent adjustment issues, etc becomes a noticeable PITA with derailleur for me after a while) but derailleur is good for locking up outside a café for 6 hours in public space. And Rohloff feels heavier - it isn't overall (compared to all the parts of a derailleur system), but with a Rohloff it's all centred around the back wheel and unbalances the feel of things a bit. Also, ive stopped using electric bikes a year or more ago now - with assistance a smaller gear range and something like shimano nexus 8 speed hub would probably have been ideal.
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Deleted member 4366
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Those Rohlhoffs are 1.7kg. For the same weight you could have a hub-motor like the new Juicy or Wisper Aikema one in the back, then, with that much power you wouldn't need any gears. A single 11T sprocket on the motor and 48T on the front would manage everything.
I have a couple of Nuvincis. You can have any ratio you want any time, but at nearly 3Kg, the weight is a massive price to pay for little gain.
For me, the most important characteristic of an electric bike is the weight. Low weight means better handling, longer range, easier to pedal uphill and easier to pedal without power. Each to their own.
I have a couple of Nuvincis. You can have any ratio you want any time, but at nearly 3Kg, the weight is a massive price to pay for little gain.
For me, the most important characteristic of an electric bike is the weight. Low weight means better handling, longer range, easier to pedal uphill and easier to pedal without power. Each to their own.
true, but speaking of weight, and on a bit of a tangent, I've lost over a stone by doing my weekly distance on a non-electric bike and feel better than ever, and have no intention of going back; it may seem at odds with being on this forum, but I can seriously recommend it.