Which? review of ebikes this month

[Deleted member 25121]

The May 2019 edition of the Which? magazine has just been released and it has a 3 page article on ebikes. It focusses on motor, battery and controller combinations and mentions the ebike manufacturers that use them. The motor, battery & controller suppliers seem to be all German or Japanese and nothing from China.

No mention of why Chinese stuff is excluded, it could be performance, reliability, support or cost.

 

[Benjahmin]

Or could it be that certain manufacturers were more vocal/handy with the wallet? Just askin'.

 

[georgehenry]

They tested 15 motor/battery size / display combinations, eight being Bosch and all as far as I could see crank drive set ups.

This may just reflect the dominance of Bosch in the market place.

Their top combination was the Bosch Active Line+ - with Intuvia display and 500Wh battery.

The worst was the Yamaha PW - with Yamaha display and 400Wh battery. This is the one I have. They said it struggled on hills. I test rode my 2015 bike against the most powerful Bosch system of that time and personally preferred its power delivery and hill climbing ability.

However I have had my bike since 2015 and have not ridden other systems as they have developed and might prefer another combination were I buying a crank drive hardtail electric mountain bike today.

Certainly other members who have bought recently are impressed by the new Bosch active line plus motor.

 

[sjpt]

Sadly Which? is no longer what it was. Many years ago there were many rubbish products on the market, and it was very difficult to get information about which ones they were. Which? was really helpful then.

There are now many more sources of information (and misinformation), much better consumer protection laws (maybe partly thanks to Which??), and Which? seems to undertake much less wide ranging and less stringent tests. Particularly in specialist areas their information is often poor.

The last time we bought on Which? advice (fairly basic Indesit gas oven best buy) the product was poor in several ways that tests should have picked up on.

 

[vfr400]

I guess they didn't include decent bikes like Wisper Juicy and Oxygen that are probably more comfortable, more user-friendly, more reliable, more durable and cheaper than the bikes they tested, or was it atest to find the best system for off-road bikes?

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Which? only tested crank based motors because they felt they provided "better weight distribution and the most natural bike-riding feel".

Which? tested ebikes using motors, batteries and controllers from Bosch, AEG, Shimano, Panasonic, Yamaha and Impulse and listed some brands that used these: Conway, Cube, Diamant, Focus, Gazelle, Haibike, i:SY, Kalkhoff, Koga, Moustach.e, Orbea, Ortler, Raleigh, Tern, Trek, Victoria, Winora and Serious.

They tested the range of the various motor , battery and controller combinations at 12.4mph and 100% assistance and also their ability to climb 6% gradients at 12.2mph and 200% assistance. Bosch and AEG did particularly well with Yamaha and Impulse at the bottom of the ratings.

 

[vfr400]

I guess they used normal cyclists to test instead of experienced ebikers. I never get the idea that an electric bike should be like a normal bike. If that's what you want, you canget it 100% by using a normal bike.

Again, the idea of perfect weight distribution - why do you need it? Most people just want a bike that steers and handles well. In fact I would go as far as to say that most people that buy ebikes don't even care about that. The people that do care about it are sporting cyclists which I'd say are very much in the minority as far as ebikers in this country are concerned. Nearly all the guys I see out and about on ebikes are middle-aged or above and either using their bike to get from A to B, out for a leisure ride or shopping.

Unfortunately, the industry seems to be driven by sporting cyclists, who have a completely different set of requirements to your average ebike buyer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there isn't a place for sporting ebikes. It's a growing market.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

I guess they used normal cyclists to test instead of experienced ebikers. I never get the idea that an electric bike should be like a normal bike. If that's what you want, you canget it 100% by using a normal bike.

Again, the idea of perfect weight distribution - why do you need it? Most people just want a bike that steers and handles well. In fact I would go as far as to say that most people that buy ebikes don't even care about that. The people that do care about it are sporting cyclists which I'd say are very much in the minority as far as ebikers in this country are concerned. Nearly all the guys I see out and about on ebikes are middle-aged or above and either using their bike to get from A to B, out for a leisure ride or shopping.

Unfortunately, the industry seems to be driven by sporting cyclists, who have a completely different set of requirements to your average ebike buyer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there isn't a place for sporting ebikes. It's a growing market.

The Which? article was targeted at people who might be interested in taking up ebikes for the first time (hence the comparison with non-ebikes), not sporting cyclists. Which? has a broad audience across all ages and interests, it isn't a cyclist's magazine.

Regarding the motor positioning they commented that "The pulling sensation you get from a front hub motor, in particular, can feel a bit unnatural, and the wheel can slip - particularly in wet conditions".

 

[vfr400]

The Which? article was targeted at people who might be interested in taking up ebikes for the first time

Yes, that might have been the intention, but why didn't they include the Halfords Pendleton or the Elife bikes that they sell on Ideal World and QVC, which are much more suited to that type of market?

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Yes, that might have been the intention, but why didn't they include the Halfords Pendleton or the Elife bikes that they sell on Ideal World and QVC, which are much more suited to that type of market?

Perhaps because they use hub motors or maybe because they use Chinese motors, batteries or controllers?

I'm just reporting what the Which? magazine reported, I didn't write the article or even endorse it......

 

[georgehenry]

I've loved riding mine largely completely under the radar and that Which? are writing an article at all tells me that they are becoming much more mainstream and my days of glorious anonymity may be coming to the end.

I am seeing many more now tethered at the local super market, on the road and out on the trails.

 

[LeighPing]

I am seeing many more now tethered at the local super market, on the road and out on the trails.

Agreed. I saw another 3 whilst walking my dog a few days ago. Until now, a bike has been a bike and no-one was looking too closely..

 

[vfr400]

Perhaps because they use hub motors or maybe because they use Chinese motors, batteries or controllers?

I'm just reporting what the Which? magazine reported, I didn't write the article or even endorse it......

I'm not disagreeing with you in any way or saying you've done anything wrong. I'm just expressing my disappointment at the media and Which magazine for giving unbalanced information. Even when they do have a fair range of bikes, they always come across as very biased.

Agreed. I saw another 3 whilst walking my dog a few days ago. Until now, a bike has been a bike and no-one was looking too closely..

I am seeing many more now tethered at the local super market, on the road and out on the trails.

What sort of bikes were they?

In all honesty, I must have seen hundreds of electric bikes when I've been out and about over the years, and I've never seen a Bosch bike on the road. I've seen one or two of the old Kalkhoff Panasonics, one Bafang BBSHD and the rest have all had hub-motors. The only time I've seen other CD bikes is at shows and demos or when I've been out with a friend, who has two different ones, and of course I've seen my own. Maybe Basildon is a poor area. What's it like in Oxford, London and Guildford?

 

[LeighPing]

What sort of bikes were they?

A Haibike, a Nuvinci and a Carrera crossfire.

 

[EddiePJ]

Around here, just about every ebike is either Bosch, Yamaha, or Brose powered, with the odd Shimano thrown in for good measure.

Other than my old BH and KTM, I don't recall ever seeing a hub drive bike, which is a shame, as I tend to think that they make a nicer ride on the road.
On this rare occasion I agree with Dave.

.

 

[Leecleary89]

Regarding Chinese hub motors being unreliable etc, that's certainly not true. They are indeed cheap but very reliable. For my 35 mile round trip commute I've now put 4000 miles on the rear hub in less than 12 months with absolutely no issues whatsoever. It's been taken off road to Cannock chase several times and flies up the hills with great battery life too. There is definitely a huge market for people that don't need expensive, regular off road crank drive systems and a rear hub motor is ideal for a massive proportion of people.

 

[georgehenry]

The type and number of electric bikes I am seeing has varied from when I started riding one in 2011, with at the start not many about and generally of the Chinese generic variety of rear or front hub design with the battery behind the seat post, but now I am seeing generally more electric bikes in general with still the Chinese shopping style ones but also many more generally, including more expensive crank drive mountain bikes out and about, mostly Bosch it has to be said.

 

[Nealh]

I saw a bloke on a Bosch drive bike recently and his posture riding position to me looked a bit odd and the bike didn't look like it was set up for him very well. A very low seat position with him unable to deliver much drive power with a bent leg/knee position at full crank stroke and pedalling with his heels, very odd indeed, my thought was a non cyclist just riding his new electric bike.
Around me I see small groups of 50's - 70's using them now and then on bank holidays and warm days mid week or weekenders, step thru style or non mtb bikes decked out with panniers and all the extras.

 

[flecc]

I share some others low opinion of "Which" testing and their obvious biases. In this instance they seem to have produced an almost exact copy of the Extra Energy test results, another biased organisation favouring European products over Chinese ones and making many mistaken assumptions.

They even tested climbing on 6%, exactly what Extra Energy did, which is a joke. 6% isn't a real hill, it's just a very gentle slope, no challenge for any e-bike and certainly not an adequate test for crank drives.

For me most Which tests are the blind leading the blind, since they cannot possibly have a sufficient range of knowledge and experience to test and adequately report on such a huge range of diverse products.
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[soundwave]