Where to get Batteries

JohnInStockie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2006
1,048
1
Stockport, SK7
Does anyone have any idea where you can buy one of the newer Giant batteries from for the Twist. I hear that the newer ones have a longer range, and would like to have a spare. Plus I would also like to know where you can get parts from as I cant find a website anywhere that you can order parts from online. :confused:

Does anyone have any good websites for Giant Twist parts??

Thanks

John
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,058
30,511
The only source of new ones is Giant unfortunately John, as they are rather high priced at £250. Re-celling for about £100 isn't a problem though.

Loads of people have looked for an alternative supplier of complete ones but drawn a blank as the battery case is unique to those models. There are some supplies in the USA but they are also expensive and even more so after import.

Apparently France still have Twists, so they might be a source for the batteries, but I don't know about price from there.

Another possibilty is a second hand one from a crashed or scrap bike, since re-celling puts it back to new, so that would be a good option.

The new ones are supposed to be 9 Ah, but at least two people have had the old 6.5 Ah delivered so it seems those haven't run out yet. Re-celling makes them 8 Ah.
 
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paulinet

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 19, 2006
6
0
Giant Battery chargers

I have a Giant LaFree Lite and my battery charger has just died on me. I am experiencing the same problem in that I can't find a website to purchase one from. My local dealer of Giant bikes says they can't get one until March 07(presumably from Giant) - which leaves me in a bit of a fix. Does anyone have any ideas about this?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,058
30,511
I've mailed Paulinet about this and I may be publishing two solutions soon as I'm already working on the problem, not just of availability, but Giant dealers prices from £120 to £139.

The temperature sensor wiring that Giant use on theTwist series is unusual which complicates matters, but I think that's solved now. Just waiting for the chargers to test it thoroughly.

Prices likely to be about £40 to £65.
 
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JohnInStockie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2006
1,048
1
Stockport, SK7
Thanks for that Flecc. I will try and search the US and see if I can find anyone anywhere selling the 9Ah Giant official batteries @ £250 then. Even though they are more expensive, I would rather buy an official one to begin with.

John
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,058
30,511
Nycewheels in the USA have the batteries for the Twist Lite etc John, $379 in the USA. Here's the link:

BATTERY: Lafree Lite

They also have the chargers at $159.

Import costs, carriage, VAT etc will push those up quite a bit.
 

Flying Kiwi

Pedelecer
Dec 25, 2006
209
0
Buckinghamshire
Does anyone have any idea where you can buy one of the newer Giant batteries from for the Twist. I hear that the newer ones have a longer range, and would like to have a spare. Plus I would also like to know where you can get parts from as I cant find a website anywhere that you can order parts from online. :confused:
Having experienced the problem flecc refers to of the dealer providing what was labelled as a 6.5 Ah battery after I specifically asked for a 9 Ah one - also intended as a spare for my 2006 Twist Comfort, I'm weary of using Giant UK in the supply chain to supply one. Thats not even considering the very high price asked compared to other brands similar batteries. The original Twist service manual bill of materials actually lists the battery casing halves under seperate part numbers to the rest of the battery. In the UK I'm unaware of any way to get these as seperate parts.

Does anyone have any good websites for Giant Twist parts??
When you find it, I'll also be very keen to know! A tech at the dealer I bought my bike from mentioned that the bikes computer could be adjusted and this involved a process where the red light on the control switch was made to flash. He didn't go into detail though and claimed he couldn't remember the process. It's these sorts of tips as well as more general information on the Panasonic drive unit that I would welcome along with reasonable pricing for parts.
 
Nov 10, 2006
178
14
Midlands
ahh the old VPC software remap key codes.;)
Get hold of them if you can, dealers seem really scared to release them into the public domain. I have tried and failed to wheedle the SuedeE codes from dealers. I half get given the feeling they don`t exist.

Mostly the dealer will give out the self test routine only.. similar on all Giants.:mad:
 

Sav

Pedelecer
Nov 25, 2006
75
4
77
Great Mongeham
Has anyone thought of recelling a Giant pack themselves?? It only appears to be 20 'D' type cells inside, can't be that difficult.

Chris.
 

Flying Kiwi

Pedelecer
Dec 25, 2006
209
0
Buckinghamshire
I have tried and failed to wheedle the SuedeE codes from dealers. I half get given the feeling they don`t exist.
Do you know anything at all about this other than what I've written. I'd believe it's not possible to remap the software also if it weren't for the fact that after taking my bike in for it's first service and complaining about range under a full charge, it came back offering noticably less power assistance than it used to do.

Mostly the dealer will give out the self test routine only.. similar on all Giants.:mad:
Do you mean just that the red light should come on briefly when the system is switched on to signify the self test is working fine (at least with the Twist) or something more substantial:confused:

And later:

Has anyone thought of recelling a Giant pack themselves?? It only appears to be 20 'D' type cells inside, can't be that difficult.

Chris.
Yes there's a section on fleccs great website about the Twist dealing with this here index Professionals normally spotweld the tagged cells together as less concentrated heat (eg from a soldering iron) will damage cells if not very carefully applied. Why not get a quote from a specialist company both for the individual cells or a complete refit and ask about any warranty implications of the do it yourself path - you may decide to get them to do it.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,058
30,511
Has anyone thought of recelling a Giant pack themselves?? It only appears to be 20 'D' type cells inside, can't be that difficult.

Chris.
Already done and posted Chris, all the details on my site, saving you £150 and getting a genuine 8 Ah.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,058
30,511
Professionals normally spotweld the tagged cells together as less concentrated heat (eg from a soldering iron) will damage cells if not very carefully applied. Why not get a quote from a specialist company both for the individual cells or a complete refit and ask about any warranty implications of the do it yourself path - you may decide to get them to do it.
If you check my details on this, you'll find that there's no soldering done directly on the cell, something I made sure of. Both solder connections are made at the end of the existing spot welded tags on the Powacycle cellpack to ensure minimal heat transfer. The metal strips are so thin that minimal heat is needed anyway to get the solder to flow.
 

Sav

Pedelecer
Nov 25, 2006
75
4
77
Great Mongeham
Thanks guys (as always). I like the idea of ripping out the powabike battery guts.

Looking at these possible cells, am I missing something???

EuroBatteries. Full Satisfaction Full Refund

They are suggested at 9000mAh super HD batteries 'D' type 1.2v tagged for building cells. Assuming I could get around the soldering problem, would not using them give me an 18 amp battery???? 20 in series should be the sum of the available power??

Chris.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,058
30,511
No, putting those in series only gives a voltage multiple, 20 x 1.2 = 24 volts, you'd still have 9 Ah.

I strongly recommend you use the Powacycle pack as I've advised. Soldering is NOT a problem with it as intimated above. If my page on this is read, this will be seen:

"Start by removing the pack from the Powacycle battery. Undo the four self tapping case screws, part the case halves and lift out the cellpack. Peel back the insulating card a little at the ends to reveal the terminations and unsolder the thick red and black wires, one at each end. Lift the tabs to avoid heating the cell walls."

In other words, the manufacturer soldered the connections in the first place, so the tags are designed for that to be done, and no harm will result

Doing it with loose tagged cells is fine, but it's very involved with bits of wire everywhere, and at those prices you're paying over £200 for a claim of 9 Ah with no proof of that. What I've given is a guaranteed 8 Ah for £100. Surely no contest?
 

Flying Kiwi

Pedelecer
Dec 25, 2006
209
0
Buckinghamshire
Soldering is NOT a problem with it as intimated above. If my page on this is read, this will be seen
Actually, my comment was referring to a fully DIY solution as I thought that was an option Sav was considering - clearly the case judging by that web page link with individual cell details. Although tagged cells are better at resisting heat damage from soldering the tags than directly onto battery casings, batteries, having the tags spotwelded professionally is the best way to go.

I did mention I thought your website was great (and I'd like to see more of the same). Any ideas that give people more options than just a £250 Giant original battery is a fine idea in my books!

As you pointed out, the individual cell price that Sav found would make for a very expensive battery refurb - much better off to shop around more. I note that you've included a refurb quote from one battery company on your site. I suspect a good battery specialist company would respond with much more competitive pricing than Sav found when confronted with details of a brand new 24 Volt 8 Ah Ni MH battery in its case for £99, after all, cases and assembly aren't free (although labour may be much cheaper than the UK if overseas sweatshops or automated assembly were used). Those cells had to come from somewhere and it makes me wonder why considering economies of scale, the largest bike manufacturer in the world, Giant, doesn't offer much more competitive pricing.

If in the end a competitive price can't be found from a professional, then there's always the option of battery pack innards transplant surgery as you've described on your site. Perhaps that supplier may even sell the cell packs minus the cases even cheaper? Certainly I've read about plenty of Giant Twist owners who would have liked to have got their hands on a pair of cheap replacement battery case halves (when the battery has been accidentally dropped and damaged for example) and I can't see how this would differ for owners of other electric bike brands.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,058
30,511
To Flying Kiwi

Re-celling services are always likely to be more expensive than DIY from an existing battery, it's a matter of labour and company running costs as you've acknowledged.

The batteries are produced in the Far East by companies with very low running costs and low wages.

Re-celling here is done by companies with UK running costs and UK labour costs, and the saving from buying just the cells doesn't compensate. Indeed, those selling cells and cellpacks also have UK or similar costs which they add to the cell prices, hence their being so high. Even if given the opportunity they can't compete.

I think you are being disingenuous when claiming that your comment on spotwelding was as a response to Chris's question on cells, when you made clear with the quote extract that you were answering his request for if anyone had done this before, and anyway, his posting on separate cells came after your reply. Clearly you'd made an assumption about the content of my advice, and a wrong one at that.

I've put a lot of time and effort into researching this and finding the best possible solution, and always appreciate constructive criticism, but posting in threads with negative generalities which have no relevance to the answer given and put the enquirer off accepting valid and tested advice is destructive. Your repeating above the comment about spotwelding is what I'm talking about, as I previously pointed out, in the context of my re-celling article, it is not valid or useful in any way. The only possible effect it can have each time is to undermine and call into the question the advice being given. That seems to me to be your aim, since you went on to do it again in regard to my example re-celling service. Instead of accepting that as a valid example, you suggested a good battery specialist company would respond with much more competitive pricing. No they wouldn't, as you well knew from your comments on labour costs etc moments later. Again the effect of your comment was to call into question what I'd placed on my site, while avoiding any specific evidence in support of what you said. If you really thought a specialist company would do better, then post the details, we'd love to have them.

Where you have specific technical knowledge that you can use constructively to help solve problems, then that's extremely welcome, the more the better. But please, pack it in with the generalities when raising potentially critical comments on someone else's specifics. If you keep to equally specific valid criticisms you'll find me welcoming and receptive of them.
 

Flying Kiwi

Pedelecer
Dec 25, 2006
209
0
Buckinghamshire
To Flying Kiwi
Well why not PM me then? A public rant (which is how this comes across to me), isn't as constructive as a succinct disagreement and the rest dealt with via a PM - particularly so where it's an issue of misinterpretation. I encourage people to not rule out the option of shopping around battery refurbishment companies unless they've found a cheaper option (including your plan) first. We both agree that labour rates are likely to mean UK battery specialists have one disadvantage but then whats to stop UK battery specialists from getting the cell pack ready built up from the same supplier the bike battery manufacturer uses at wholesale prices and without the casing? Certainly if I was a battery specialist, thats one option I'd consider if my usual suppliers weren't competitive.

With regards to the rest of your post, you've made assumptions about my "aim" which are incorrect. I'm sorry that you believe I'm coming across as disingenious, thats definitely not my intent. Please check your PMs later today.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,058
30,511
Why reply privately to a problem of public criticism. Since it still hasn't sunk in, try this about your behaviour.

When I wrote the above, you had 4 days in the forum, 11 posts, 7 of them with this sort of largely non-specific sniping at me within them.

Don't insult my intelligence by pretending that's reasonable, try making a positive contribution instead.

Again you dodge the point of what I wrote above, the effect on others of your behaviour:-

Chris asked about the possibility of recelling the battery, I'd provided a tested site answer which by design had avoided any need for welding. Your response was to bring up the irrelevance of welding and hinting at problems with soldering which did not apply. The result was that Chris then posted "Assuming I could get round the soldering problem - -"

Well done! What a great achievement, finding a problem where none existed and making it a new problem for someone else.