What's the answer?

[peterjd]

Those who have read some of my other posts over the last few years will know that I am somewhat paranoid about the additional weight of most ebikes compared with the lightweight unpowered touring bikes of my youth. Although I readily acknowledge the benefits of my modest ebikes (a Decathlon 500E and the modded old touring bike with powered front wheel) in keeping me cycling into my late seventies, it doesn't match the feeling of freedom for me given by a lightweight responsive bike on the open road. I was reminded of this when I removed the powered wheel (and battery) from my old tourer to sort out an intermittent power loss problem. Whilst I had the powered wheel off, I restored the original front wheel and tested it on our local (admittedly modest gradient) hill. I had to use all my gears and put in a bit more pedaling effort to reach the summit but the mood was one of pleasure at still being able to do it without exhausting myself.
So I will carry on experimenting with that bike to get the minimum of assistance (on hills for example) that retains that feeling over modest touring distances. At present that will be modding the friction drives which I unsuccessfully tried to use on my lightweight folding bike (subsequently sold) and minimising battery weight and optimizing location. And yes I am aware of the bad press that friction drives get (often with good reason), but the ones I've got are lightweight and I have them to hand.

 

[Sturmey]

What's the question?

 

[soundwave]

ightweight unpowered touring bikes

not 1 has ever overtaken me and as i can pump out 350w from my legs they have no chance

 

[soundwave]

i cant beat that batt is in a back pack

 

[thelarkbox]

There was a recent ? in my feed at least emtb youtube at an expo showcasing motors which contained a few seconds of footage of a Prototype? motor-less flywheel bike.. no details beyond the ?inventors assertion of 10% of effort was diverted for use when needed uphill etc.. I would look it up but ive given you all the details in the vid as it was a bit of filler footage inbetween the hard sell of established brands.

 

[lenny]

Superwheel System Home - No Battery No Charging - E Bike Alternative

Superwheel is a bicycle wheel with a built-in power assistance system, using our patent pending (WTECT) ‘Weight (mass) to energy conversion technology, converting the user’s weight to turning power during rotation to improve cycling efficiency. No Battery No Charging.

www.superwheelsystem.com

https://www.youtube.com/@SuperSimon/videos

Does the SuperWheel REALLY offer power assistance without a battery? Plus Hunt’s new lightweight alloy wheels, prototype Cadex superbike, Black Inc’s fastest ever disc wheel + more

Catch up with all of this week’s big – and not so big – bike and equipment news

road.cc

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/super-wheel-still-claims-to-offer-power-assistance-without-a-motor-and-were-still-skeptical.html

"This comparison, found on Super Wheel's Facebook page, is interesting, though I'm not sure exactly what point is being made."

The Super Wheel | Cavan

The Super Wheel, Cavan. 633 likes · 7 talking about this. Power assisted....Powered by weight

www.facebook.com

 

[lenny]

SuperWheel - Comet Model 26inch - Super Wheel System

Experience the freedom with Easy cycling, no battery needed, pedal assistance with unlimited range. Suitable for City bikes, Cargo bikes, Touring bikes (not drop handle bar) and Hybrid bikes. Not suitable for Road bike and racing bike. Standard hybrid tyre for commuting included, please contact...

www.superwheelsystem.com

SuperWheel - Comet Model 700mm - Super Wheel System

Experience the freedom with Easy cycling, no battery needed, pedal assistance with unlimited range. Suitable for City bikes, Cargo bikes, Touring bikes (not drop handle bar) and Hybrid bikes. Not suitable for Road bike and racing bike. Standard hybrid tyre for commuting included, please contact...

www.superwheelsystem.com

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Aikema AKM75(1.4kg) or bafang G370hub motor. Something like Wooshs battery in a bag

E-bike Batteries from Woosh

Prices of electric bike Lithium batteries. Woosh has a range of 9 well built and stylish electric foldables, mountain bikes and road bikes featuring Bafang motor and PICC Lithium 36V battery from £399 to £699.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Or Woosh faro (16.5 kg including battery)

 

[Woosh]

ightweight unpowered touring bikes

My Woosh Faro is pretty good. I rode it for two years until my prostate made me change to a full suss. There is no practical low cost conversion because you need small light weight battery and a lightweight motor. I often rode it unpowered.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

My Woosh Faro is pretty good. I rode it for two years until my prostate made me change to a full suss. There is no practical low cost conversion because you need small light weight battery and a lightweight motor. I often rode it unpowered.

At the risk of going off on a tangent, can you tell us more about your full suss. I am tempted to do a full suss conversion, not for epic mountain climbing, just for comfort on long road trips or light trails.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

There is no practical low cost conversion because you need small light weight battery and a lightweight motor.

How about a AKM75 hub and something like your 10Ah 36v battery in a bag ?

 

[Woosh]

How about a AKM75 hub and something like your 10Ah 36v battery in a bag ?

I am working on it.
The kit I am using is Tongsheng/Shengyi DWG2NC with Mechaniker's torque sensor built into the motor. The motor weighs 2kg. I will add a bag battery.

This is my bike, weighing just under 10kgs.
The kit will add 4kgs but it will be very easy to swap out, just a 9-pin motor connector.

 

[Bikes4two]

I think what @peterjd is getting at is the pleasure that a light weight non e-assisted bike rides like compared to the more heavier e-bike machines.

That's very much a subjective rider assessment of course and those with high powered e-bikes who use little of their own leg power won't necessarily understand Peter's point.

However, as one who has recently stripped their (lighter of my two) ebikes of unnecessary clutter (excess tools, gigantic lock, pannier rack, saddle bag etc etc), I was reminded of how much difference the ride felt without that additional mass, The bike felt more sprightly and responsive to pedalling effort and reminded me of the ride I got from my carbon framed Trek Madone a few years back. I even found on my last 70 mile ride that I rode for maybe 25% of the ride without any e-assistance and 'returned' a battery power consumption of 4.5 Wh/mile meaning that I could have ridden the whole ride with just one single 8.4Ah bag battery ( but I took an extra 10s 1p with me just in case).

So the answer to the undefined question is..........?

 

[saneagle]

I think what @peterjd is getting at is the pleasure that a light weight non e-assisted bike rides like compared to the more heavier e-bike machines.

That's very much a subjective rider assessment of course and those with high powered e-bikes who use little of their own leg power won't necessarily understand Peter's point.

However, as one who has recently stripped their (lighter of my two) ebikes of unnecessary clutter (excess tools, gigantic lock, pannier rack, saddle bag etc etc), I was reminded of how much difference the ride felt without that additional mass, The bike felt more sprightly and responsive to pedalling effort and reminded me of the ride I got from my carbon framed Trek Madone a few years back. I even found on my last 70 mile ride that I rode for maybe 25% of the ride without any e-assistance and 'returned' a battery power consumption of 4.5 Wh/mile meaning that I could have ridden the whole ride with just one single 8.4Ah bag battery ( but I took an extra 10s 1p with me just in case).

So the answer to the undefined question is..........?

A lightweight unassisted road bike requires about the same effort to pedal at the same speed as my electric MTB on level 1 (about 100w from the battery).

 

[Woosh]

So the answer to the undefined question is..........?

Here is the benefit of starting with a nice, comfortable, surefooted and reponsive bike.
It will still be nice, comfortable, surefooted and reponsive bike with and without power.
If you start with a lump of steel, it will not be nice to ride it, with or without power.

 

[saneagle]

Here is the benefit of starting with a nice, comfortable, surefooted and reponsive bike.
It will still be nice, comfortable, surefooted and reponsive bike with and without power.
If you start with a lump of steel, it will not be nice to ride it, with or without power.

It depends on what you mean by nice to ride. I've ridden many quite heavy ebikes that were nice to ride.

 

[Woosh]

It depends on what you mean by nice to ride. I've ridden many quite heavy ebikes that were nice to ride.

I am not obsessed with lightweight, it's is only one factor otherwise I would have not fitted large pedals and propstand to all my bikes. My point is you should be selective about which bike you are going to convert. Your first question should be: Are you happy riding it unassisted?
We have more and more new bikes bought on the net and sent to us directly for conversion. You get a more satisfying and brand new ebike at less cost than a factory built.
Anyone can start a second income stream doing that.

 

[Az.]

It is unfortunate that adding a kit to a bike does change many things. Some for better, some for worse. I don't know the answer to your question. Please do let us know if you find what you are looking for. I miss that undefined thing too.

I used to think the bigger battery the better. I don't think that anymore.

 

[flecc]

I think what @peterjd is getting at is the pleasure that a light weight non e-assisted bike rides like compared to the more heavier e-bike machines.

That's very much a subjective rider assessment of course and those with high powered e-bikes who use little of their own leg power won't necessarily understand Peter's point.

Fully agree on both your points. I'm a heretic where assisted bikes are concerned. Despite an association with them in the trade from my youth I never wanted one, always liking riding good bicycles far too much. I was nearly 70 when I bought my first EAPC and then it was only to help hauling a large heavily loaded trailer. Then a heart attack at 70 meant I started to use it for all cycling to relieve the stress in my hilly area and avoid a repeat. But at no time since did I ever enjoy cycling again in the way I always did unpowered, despite trying a wide variety of pedelecs and owning three.

This pursuit of an e-bike that matches the pleasure of riding a good light road bike is like the holy grail of pedelecing. We get a constant stream of people and even some companies trying to achieve it, Cytronex and BH for example, but none ever really achieve it. It's not just a matter of weight, there's a whole range of factors involved, but the one that makes it ultimately impossible is insoluble. It's the psychological one of the pleasure that one gets from one's own physically unassisted ability. That is irreplaceable.
.

 

[saneagle]

Fully agree on both your points. I'm a heretic where assisted bikes are concerned. Despite an association with them in the trade from my youth I never wanted one, always liking riding good bicycles far too much. I was nearly 70 when I bought my first EAPC and then it was only to help hauling a large heavily loaded trailer. Then a heart attack at 70 meant I started to use it for all cycling to relieve the stress in my hilly area and avoid a repeat. But at no time since did I ever enjoy cycling again in the way |I always did unpowered, despite trying a wide variety of pedelecs and owning three.

Ths pursuit of an e-bike that matches the pleasure of riding a good light road bike is like the holy grail of pedelecing. We get a constant stream of people and even some companies trying to achieve it, Cytronex and BH for example, but none ever really achieve it. It's not just a matter of weight, there's a whole range of factors involved, but the one that makes it ultimately impossible is insoluble. It's the psychological one of the pleasure that one gets from one's own physically unassisted ability. That is irreplaceable.
.

The number of ebikes you need is n+1, where n is the number you already have.