What would be on your short-list?

[indalo]

Ok, you've got your e-bike and you love it but there's a whole host of newer machinery out there so, if you could afford to lash out on something new for 2011, what would be on your short-list right now?

I ride a "comfort" type of bike and I'm not sure how much comfort I'd be prepared to sacrifice to enjoy the extra verve and incredible lightness of some of the machinery available now. Some of the Emotion models really appeal to me as do the Kalkhoff Pro-Connect S and the Cytronex/Cannondale range.

Riding canal towpaths and designated off-road cycle routes forms a large part of my cycling profile so I'm not sure that those sleek, ultra-lightweight, narrow-tyred race-type bikes would be up to my typical terrain. Having said that, my Gazelle wasn't really designed for off-road use but it seems to cope ok so perhaps I underestimate the potential of these newer & more powerful machines.

I'd be interested to hear the views of others who have experienced ebikes, particularly those amongst you who have been fortunate to ride a variety of modern bikes with their extra power and, in some cases, speed.

Any views including "left-field" choices would be appreciated.

 

[newbike]

OK I have a Freego Hawk on my short list. If some one knows of anything else I can get for £500 I am all ears.

 

[morphix]

my short list and thoughts...

So here's my own short list, after much thought and research!

Ezee TorQ - £1,450
Ezee Forza - £1,450
Wisper 905 Eco 14A - £1,203
Lifecycle City Sport - £1,299
Freego Eagle - £1,275
Batribike Granite - £799

My criteria for a perfect bike is:

- Hybrid bike with step over frame
- Speed, and lots of it
- Good hill climbing
- Throttle and pedelec power
- 30-40 miles on a single charge with assist
- A bike that looks fairly normal

I've shown the best prices I could find online. My budget is under £1,500..ideally below £1,300.

At the moment I'm torn between Wisper and Ezee, and whilst the Wisper is an easy choice (do I really need front suspension?), I can't decide which Ezee model of the two is the best bikes.

And just to confuse things further, the two newcomers Lifecycle and Freego are tempting offers with their super-long range 17A batteries, and both bikes are very reasonably priced indeed. However, as newer makes, they're a bit of an uncertain.

Saying that though, all bikes are to some degree, even the more established makes can have faults develop particularly with the constantly changing battery technology. However I think it's reassuring to deal with a company that's well established with a support network. Which raises a question about Ezee..although it's a well established brand, there appears to be only one Ezee outlet in the UK (onbike) and one wonders how committed they are to the brand and availability of parts in future.

The last bike, Batribike, is a bit of a wildcard..looks interesting as a budget bike... it looks sturdy with a reasonable spec, but it has a smaller capacity 10A battery which maybe false economy if you wanted to go longer distances, may end having to spend £300 on a spare battery. Also the company behind it looks very small.

I've made a spreadsheet comparison table to compare the features, here is my summary:

The Wisper 905 stands out for it's appeal, popularity and wide support. They go fast and have the perfect match of long distance and speed. They also have the de-restrict button conveniently on the handlebar (optional) to make them go even faster! And the 2 year warranty on the battery is unique. A sign of confidence from Wisper in it's product quality. The 905 Eco looks good value for money as an entry bike and it's the lightest bike at 21.6kg even with the 14A battery upgrade.

The Ezee bikes stand out for their fast performance and quality components. They look more serious bikes to ride for longer distances and for durability perhaps. But they are the most expensive and not the lightest bikes weighing in at 25kg.

Freego and Lifecycle definitely look best choice for range due their larger capacity batteries. The Lifecycle is the more established brand, proving popular on the Gadget Show. But really little is known about these bikes due to the lack of reviews from ordinary users. Are they potentially great bargains, at this price or not quite up to par with Wisper and Ezee?

 

[jbond]

Oh, I think one of these.
Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Unsane's Hadron
but without the dual handlebars.

 

[morphix]

folding bikes..

I even considered a folding bike.. I like the idea of being able to store it indoors which might help the bike last longer.. and being able to get onto trains and coaches with it would be great, you could go virtually anywhere with it. One imagines taking it on holiday and exploring places...

However from my research it seems these folding bikes aren't *that* much lighter than their full size counter-parts. I've not seen many under 19kg and that's still a hefty weight to lug about, particularly as I live up 3 flights of stairs..not very practical.

Although I think folding bikes have a cool factor about them, I think it takes the right sort of person to ride one. I think personally I would feel a bit silly riding one as I'm quite tall at 5'11 and middle aged.

The final thing which ruled one out tho for me was due to their smaller wheels and limited power. They're not designed for long distances so not really practical as a main bike for me at least....the amount of money they cost, may as well put it into a proper full size bike that can go the distance and get some speed.

 

[weirdfish]

For looks alone, the Cube EPO.

 

[eddieo]

indalo, we already have very good Wisper hub motor bikes, but I want to add a Panasonic S model in 2011. I want a Swiss flyer but budget restraints mean I will probably go for a Kalkhoff with the local support as well. I think the Sahel is probably a more comfortable bike, but like I say below you need to get out and try them. there are some good threads on the Sahel if you do a search.....



morphix, To me it is a bit like buying houses.....all about location location location. because when your bike goes wrong (an odds on certainty) getting it to and from retailer/repairer and getting a comprehensive service and reception when you get there, is what its really all about IMO

Why your budget is more for the Ezee then the Wisper is also odd, think of the desirability and resale ? If you want to upgrade at some point a 905 SE will sell in a week on ebay

Last but not least, you mention hill climbing, but inexplicably a Panasonic bike has not made your list. In fact have you tried any of the bikes on your list or is this an academic exercise. Because if you haven't because they are a bit difficult to get to, kinda proves my point re support......getting the bike to and from a repairer is a fundamental part of ownership

 

[Pedalo]

I even considered a folding bike.. I like the idea of being able to store it indoors which might help the bike last longer.. and being able to get onto trains and coaches with it would be great, you could go virtually anywhere with it. One imagines taking it on holiday and exploring places...

However from my research it seems these folding bikes aren't *that* much lighter than their full size counter-parts. I've not seen many under 19kg and that's still a hefty weight to lug about, particularly as I live up 3 flights of stairs..not very practical.

Although I think folding bikes have a cool factor about them, I think it takes the right sort of person to ride one. I think personally I would feel a bit silly riding one as I'm quite tall at 5'11 and middle aged.

The final thing which ruled one out tho for me was due to their smaller wheels and limited power. They're not designed for long distances so not really practical as a main bike for me at least....the amount of money they cost, may as well put it into a proper full size bike that can go the distance and get some speed.

I use my E-Brompton every day for a 15 mile round trip commute and it's perfectly fine at that kind of distance. I also wasn't sure about the geek chic look (!) but there are so Bromptons around nowadays that nobody bats an eyelid and I don't feel self concious. Mine weighs 13kg in one hand and the battery adds a little over a Kg to my luggage in the other hand. I think it would be possible to get the weight down to approx 12kg with fewer gears.

I agree hefting that up 3 flights of stairs on a regular basis would be a bit of a struggle. I carry mine up one flight at work and that's quite enough!

 

[flecc]

So here's my own short list, after much thought and research!

Ezee TorQ - £1,450
Ezee Forza - £1,450
Wisper 905 Eco 14A - £1,203
Lifecycle City Sport - £1,299
Freego Eagle - £1,275
Batribike Granite - £799


At the moment I'm torn between Wisper and Ezee,

even the more established makes can have faults develop particularly with the constantly changing battery technology. However I think it's reassuring to deal with a company that's well established with a support network. Which raises a question about Ezee..although it's a well established brand, there appears to be only one Ezee outlet in the UK (onbike) and one wonders how committed they are to the brand and availability of parts in future.

Wisper and eZee use the same 14 Ah battery, made by Advanced, one of the best there is.

Onbike are very committed to eZee and carry all main spares in stock. I can tell you from personal experience, as can many others, that in an emergency the eZee principal Wai Won Ching will courier anything needed immediately if necessary, often with no courier charge. The Wisper principal David Miall gives an equally impeccable personal service if it ever becomes necessary.
.

 

[morphix]

I use my E-Brompton every day for a 15 mile round trip commute and it's perfectly fine at that kind of distance. I also wasn't sure about the geek chic look (!) but there are so Bromptons around nowadays that nobody bats an eyelid and I don't feel self concious. Mine weighs 13kg in one hand and the battery adds a little over a Kg to my luggage in the other hand. I think it would be possible to get the weight down to approx 12kg with fewer gears.

I agree hefting that up 3 flights of stairs on a regular basis would be a bit of a struggle. I carry mine up one flight at work and that's quite enough!

Wow that must be the lightest folder? That certainly makes on and off public transport feasible.

 

[morphix]

Wisper and eZee use the same 14 Ah battery, made by Advanced, one of the best there is.

Onbike are very committed to eZee and carry all main spares in stock. I can tell you from personal experience, as can many others, that in an emergency the eZee principal Wai Won Ching will courier anything needed immediately if necessary, often with no courier charge. The Wisper principal David Miall gives an equally impeccable personal service if it ever becomes necessary.
.

Thanks flecc that's very reassuring to know. I think these two makes are going to stay top of my short-list as the aftersales support is a major factor when making such an expensive investment.

 

[newbike]

Freego Eagle - £1,275

Does this look familiar?

On research, how many of these bikes are rebranded for the UK market?
I am getting a 24V 10AH version (but I believe that it has the same electrics as well as everything else)
Even has the same carbon fiber effect paint.

I am aware the battery might not hold up but I really liked the freego bike, just not the cost. I get 6 months on everything inc the battery.
Should get it by the weekend, I will do a mini review and better pics.

 

[morphix]

morphix, To me it is a bit like buying houses.....all about location location location. because when your bike goes wrong (an odds on certainty) getting it to and from retailer/repairer and getting a comprehensive service and reception when you get there, is what its really all about IMO

Why your budget is more for the Ezee then the Wisper is also odd, think of the desirability and resale ? If you want to upgrade at some point a 905 SE will sell in a week on ebay

Last but not least, you mention hill climbing, but inexplicably a Panasonic bike has not made your list. In fact have you tried any of the bikes on your list or is this an academic exercise. Because if you haven't because they are a bit difficult to get to, kinda proves my point re support......getting the bike to and from a repairer is a fundamental part of ownership

Eddieo, that's a sensible way of looking at it. I haven't tried any of the bikes on my short-list so I'm relying on academic research as you say, and basically sticking to safe bikes which are established. Onbike is my closest dealer but still a decent 12+ mile trek by car and I don't have a car myself. I expect if I bought from them, they would probably be able to pick up and deliver if anything went wrong, would have to check that though. Certainly as you say, needs to be considered before purchasing..

My budget is probably £1.3k but I would be willing to stretch to £1.5k for an Ezee if I'm convinced they're the best bikes at this price range. Right now, I'm feeling more drawn to Wisper as I just like the look of the bike and the feel of the company behind it. Do you think it's worth paying a bit extra for an SE rather than getting an Eco? Would an Eco be a much less comfortable ride you think?

A good point you made about panasonic crank system and hill climbing. I get the impression these are much more expensive? If you could recommend anything within my budget I will take a look.

Thanks for all your advice and info everyone, it certainly makes this a bit easier.

 

[morphix]

Does this look familiar?

On research, how many of these bikes are rebranded for the UK market?
I am getting a 24V 10AH version (but I believe that it has the same electrics as well as everything else)
Even has the same carbon fiber effect paint.

I am aware the battery might not hold up but I really liked the freego bike, just not the cost. I get 6 months on everything inc the battery.
Should get it by the weekend, I will do a mini review and better pics.

I wouldn't of noticed it if you hadn't told me, but yes it's the same bike as the freego eagle! Can I ask how much you paid and from where? I'm very curious! I've read that some 24v bikes can perform just as well as 36v, if the motor is good.

As you say there must be a lot of these generic bikes being sold. It seems some Chinese manufacturers have no loyalty to dealers, they will sell to anyone. I noticed earlier a Chinese company offering Wisper's by the container. I don't know if these are genuine or copies!?

Earlier I saw this unusual bike being offered on eBay from yet another smaller importer.. "Pro Commuter" 36v 250W or 350W for £799 delivered.

GENTS ELECTRIC BIKE on eBay (end time 19-Nov-10 11:12:27 GMT)

 

[flecc]

A good point you made about panasonic crank system and hill climbing. I get the impression these are much more expensive? If you could recommend anything within my budget I will take a look.

Thanks for all your advice and info everyone, it certainly makes this a bit easier.

The Kalkhoffs are as good as they get using the Panasonic unit, and the agents are 50cycles at Loughborough. Their service can be excellent as i can vouch when I posted in this forum that I'd broken a battery platform on another make bike they represented at the time. 50cycles put one straight into the post to me, and I hadn't even asked for one, they'd just seen my post!

And of course Onbike near you also represent the very good BH Emotion Pansonic powered range as main agents in this country.
.

 

[flecc]

I noticed earlier a Chinese company offering Wisper's by the container. I don't know if these are genuine or copies!?

Earlier I saw this unusual bike being offered on eBay from yet another smaller importer.. "Pro Commuter" 36v 250W or 350W for £799 delivered.

GENTS ELECTRIC BIKE on eBay (end time 19-Nov-10 11:12:27 GMT)

There have been various Wisper clones, success always bring Chinese copies.

The odd frame shape on your link has appeared twice before on other e-bikes, the eZee Cadence and the Juicy Sport, but with the rest of the details differing. The Cadence was the original, the other two similar copies.
.

 

[newbike]

I wouldn't of noticed it if you hadn't told me, but yes it's the same bike as the freego eagle! Can I ask how much you paid and from where? I'm very curious! I've read that some 24v bikes can perform just as well as 36v, if the motor is good.

As you say there must be a lot of these generic bikes being sold. It seems some Chinese manufacturers have no loyalty to dealers, they will sell to anyone. I noticed earlier a Chinese company offering Wisper's by the container. I don't know if these are genuine or copies!?

Earlier I saw this unusual bike being offered on eBay from yet another smaller importer.. "Pro Commuter" 36v 250W or 350W for £799 delivered.

GENTS ELECTRIC BIKE on eBay (end time 19-Nov-10 11:12:27 GMT)

From my own experience (not bikes but IT) they are usually all made in the same factory, some are then customised for customers.
There is no benefit to them being exclusive, also sometimes they may be exclusive to a country, but that does not stop another chinese company buying them in china then exporting through the back door.

Or it could be a lemon.

 

[indalo]

Some of the views expressed are quite interesting to me, none more so than Eddie's point about location. No-one would buy a new car in the UK if the nearest dealer were somewhere on mainland europe or the far east so I don't think it's unreasonable to apply the same logic to an investment of say, £2000 or possibly more.

What I do find surprising is the apparent lack of desire for Panasonic powered bikes among the choices expressed by responders. Whether that is on account of cost, style or how their power is delivered, I have no idea but I expected to see a few in there.

If I decide I'd like to replace my current electric steed or simply add to my fleet of two bikes, I shall certainly tour the major dealers and attend one of the big shows so that I get to actually ride some of the bikes people speak highly of in this forum. My number one question for any dealer after a test ride has to be, "How much will you charge me for a replacement battery when the time comes?" That, for me, is a major consideration along with a solid guarantee of at least 2 years from a company who are likely to be around long enough to honour any warranty!

Total bicycle weight will also figure highly in my choice and somewhere between 15 & 21Kgs would afford a decent power-to-weight ratio, regardless of the battery and motor involved. Having looked around and compared specs on a few bikes now, it's clear that there are models around which fit that criterion without having to go all carbon with the associated cost.

The ability to manhandle a bicycle easily, whether it be in and out of my estate car, lifting it up to a roof mount or attaching it to a rear rack with the confidence that it won't come off is also high up there on my list.

Thanks to those who have shared their views but what really surprises me is that so many apparently highly-regarded bikes fail to appear on people's wish lists. Perhaps, if you own one of those, you simply don't wish for anything better as there isn't anything better?

 

[newbike]

Some of the views expressed are quite interesting to me, none more so than Eddie's point about location. No-one would buy a new car in the UK if the nearest dealer were somewhere on mainland europe or the far east so I don't think it's unreasonable to apply the same logic to an investment of say, £2000 or possibly more.

I think the difference is, I would happily fit a new controller, motor, battery etc to a bike. For example there are home conversion kits, they are not too technical. (and I used to run RC cars and to all extents they are a larger version of the same set up. Battery, Electric Speed controller & motor)

I know nothing about working on internal combustion engines so I would not work on my car.

But your right if I was spending £2K I would want local support, but I am not spending a quarter of that, so you know what they say about beggars.

 

[flecc]

What I do find surprising is the apparent lack of desire for Panasonic powered bikes among the choices expressed by responders.

what really surprises me is that so many apparently highly-regarded bikes fail to appear on people's wish lists. Perhaps, if you own one of those, you simply don't wish for anything better as there isn't anything better?

I'm sure it's partly that most don't respond, partly that the request stimulates desires for something out of the ordinary, and both these factors are evident in the few responses that were received.

When someone posts about high end stuff such as Panasonic powered Flyer top models like the X model, Panasonic's own latest sport bike, exotica like Optibike and other expensive stuff, there's no lack of drooling posts.

And as you say, those happy with the high end they have don't want to consider anything else.
.