What is wrong with 50cycles?

[Tiberius]

If you look around this forum you will see posts praising and posts decrying 50cycles. That is perhaps only to be expected, but one or two posters on here do seem to have serious issues with that company.

Up to now I have tried on this forum to stick to technical issues. But with regret I now have to add my name to those who are thoroughly pissed off with 50cycles and their attitude to some customers and potential customers.

Now I don't say this lightly and I don't base it on one incident. But I have now had four attempts to do business with them and each time I have come away feeling insulted and aggrieved.

Nor do I say this in haste. Since the last incident, I have waited over 48 hours to see if my views would change after two nights sleeping on it, and also to give Tim Snaith a chance to respond to an email. Well, they haven't, and he hasn't.

It has been suggested in other threads that this sort of thing shouldn't be posted, that its perhaps politically incorrect to post criticism of some peoples' favourite distributor. Or even that its just boring, people don't want to read about individual private disputes.

They probably don't, so let's look at the very public one that's going on - between 50cycles and eZee. 50cycles are very keen to blame a lot of things on eZee, and the head of eZee has blatantly posted on this forum that he considers his UK distributor in a less favourable light than others.

Both 50cycles and eZee are now encouraging individuals here to deal directly with eZee in China. In my experience this is a situation that is absolutely unprecedented between a distributor and a manufacturer. Compare it for instance with the way in which the Kalkhoff brand is being handled. To be honest, it is hard to see 50cycles remaining as the eZee sole distributor.

I trust that up to now, people on this forum, would remember me as a person who when faced with a problem, tries to find a solution rather than either being a whinging git or looking for someone to blame.

I'm sorry if you think I have strayed from that, but these things are fair comment and they need to be said. Clearly something is rotten in the state of Loughborough.

Nick

 

[frank9755]

Nick,

Fristly I'm sorry that you have had a poor experience.

To address your question in the abstract, rather than your personal experience, which I think was your intention with this question, I don't think there is anything wrong as such with 50 Cycles. By and large they seem to do a reasonable job. However, I do feel that some people have inflated expectations of them and misunderstand what they are very good at and what they are perhaps average at.

In my opinion:

They have the best range of electric bikes in the UK, or possibly even anywhere else. They are the best in the business at identifying and sourcing these bikes and agreeing distribution deals with manufacturers. That is why people buy from them and they deserve success because of it.

They are not great at selling. Several people report having different stories from different people and being treated with indifference when attempting to buy (my own personal experience was both of these). Their web site seems to have frequent errors.

They are inconsistent in after-sales service. Note I'm not saying they are bad and I feel that many in the industry, if not most, are worse. They sometimes seem to provide really great service but on other occasions such as yours, it goes wrong. I think many people believe they are a super-service company and are therefore disappointed when they perhaps fail to live up to expectations that were too high (not saying this was the case with you). A possible contributor to this is that they often seem to be showered with praise on this forum for doing things that are not really out of the ordinary.

Frank

 

[JamesC]

Nick

Just to say that I have found your technical posts very helpful and informative.

Batteries and motors will always be the core part in the technical side of ebikes, and this forum benefits from many knowledgeable guys.

I would imagine that 50cycles benefit from time to time from the quality put out by the senior guys here.

Thanks to all of you.

James

 

[Citrus]

Here we go again....

This forum seems to have turned into a bitter and angry mob against 50cycles. Some posts being deleted within 1/2 an hour of being posted as at the weekend - because presumably it was deemed a bit over the top.

I must be one of the "lucky" ones then. I ordered my Kalkhoff Agattu (wave frame) the week before Christmas. They delivered it on Christmas Eve at 6pm - that is in my opinion not normal service - it is exceptional. I live in Central Scotland, so I am hardly local for them. They have answered all my emails and have nearly always phoned me back, or I have managed to speak to someone. I am one of their happy customers.

I am sorry some of you are having problems with 50cycles - but the issue doesn't seem to be black and white - with some people like me getting very good service (i.e. the vast majority of their customers - or they would be out of business pretty quickly) and others - a small vocal minority - using this forum as their soapbox to slate 50cycles.

I personally don't think that the forum should be used in such a manner and that individuals should sort out their problems with 50cycles directly. If I was as angry as some of you appear to be - I would be beating a path to their door to speak to them in person not bleating about it here.

 

[simonbarnett]

I think they've just hit a delivery or manufacture blockage and i'm sure they're as unhappy about it as their customers. We'll see what they say when they return from their visit to Germany. Citrus- please check your PMs- left you one a while back!

 

[fishingpaul]

My only experience with 50 cycles,is an un answered email question after three months. however they always manage to email me details of their latest bikes,I am surprised people are not chasing refunds over ezee bikes,the lithium battery ones are surely not fit for purpose if they keep cutting out up hills.perhaps the forgiving nature of most of us elderly cyclists, enables suppliers to take advantage.how can the exagerrated claims of 350+ charges by some sellers,be allowed to continue when sometimes in reallity only 60 charges are more normal,somebody should be accountable for these false claims.i am not just knocking 50 cycles but other sellers as well,lets have some honest figures available.

 

[Tiberius]

This forum seems to have turned into a bitter and angry mob against 50cycles.

Hi Citrus,

With respect, I would say that its the other way round. Other companies have been picked over on this forum - for instance the whole Whisper UK/Whisper Germany warranty issue and Batteryspace. But when anything negative is posted about 50cycles we hear that its not fair and that's not what the forum is for.

Fishingpaul points out that they have been given a very gentle time over the eZee Lithium battery issue. They appear to have been allowed to wriggle out of some serious liabilities there.

Frank's summary hits it on the head. They have picked a good product line, but their handling of information and of people is not good.

Your good experience is not unique, but then neither is my bad experience. We can't tell the proportion of good to bad treatment, but what is significant is how any complaints are resolved.

You suggest people should try to resolve things directly and I agree entirely. But if you read 50cycles responses on this forum, they are high-handed and arrogant. The attitude is take it or leave it, we're right and you're wrong. When things can't be resolved between the parties then it is inevitable, and correct, that it gets reported on the forum.

Nick

 

[tgame]

In my experience nothing.

They are possibly a little brisk on the phone sometimes, but I welcome that. I like being treated as an adult rather than buttered up as a prospective customer. They answered my questions in a way that was individual, useful, unexaggerated and very, very valuable.

They admit to being a small firm and are probably much busier than most of us realise. The odd email will sometimes be overlooked by people who are not computered up to the eyebrows with electronic mind jabbers. I don't mind that. One can write a second time.

Modern post Thatcher businesses swim in heavily shark infested waters. An individually based approach, such as I have received, is unusual now, and, to me, welcome.

Now that the Far East with its inexperienced, (though often enthusiastic) manufacturers is so prominent in supplying our needs, problems with supply, and perhaps with description, are inevitable, and one must expect them from time to time. I'm sure that for every time one of us suffers 50cycles suffers a hundred times more. We can no longer expect to be wrapped in cotton wool by customer relations of smallish firms. Personally I have never wanted to be.

I am in no way wishing to denigrate or push aside the sensitive and thoughtful message to which I am responding. Just wishing to describe a different feeling.

 

[JamesC]

In my experience nothing.

They are possibly a little brisk on the phone sometimes, but I welcome that. I like being treated as an adult rather than buttered up as a prospective customer. They answered my questions in a way that was individual, useful, unexaggerated and very, very valuable.

They admit to being a small firm and are probably much busier than most of us realise. The odd email will sometimes be overlooked by people who are not computered up to the eyebrows with electronic mind jabbers. I don't mind that. One can write a second time.

Modern post Thatcher businesses swim in heavily shark infested waters. An individually based approach, such as I have received, is unusual now, and, to me, welcome.

Now that the Far East with its inexperienced, (though often enthusiastic) manufacturers is so prominent in supplying our needs, problems with supply, and perhaps with description, are inevitable, and one must expect them from time to time. I'm sure that for every time one of us suffers 50cycles suffers a hundred times more. We can no longer expect to be wrapped in cotton wool by customer relations of smallish firms. Personally I have never wanted to be.

I am in no way wishing to push aside the sensitive and thoughtful message to which I am responding. Just wishing to describe a different feeling.

There is every reason to expect the next phase of development at 50cycles to be very positive and successful with the Kahlkoff range of bikes.

Sales seem to be developing well, and the extended range are due to arrive shortly.

From my experience, the customers who are having difficulty are those in the 80 -120 charges time bracket, doing longer distances or high load work with the ezee Li-ion batteries.

Depending on how often the bike is used (say 2-3 full charges per week), disappointment can develop after some 35 - 40 weeks of ownership.

With the success of the ezee range during 2007, many were needing new batteries in order to continue using their bikes, and there always seemed to be shortages, especially of the earlier NiMH type.

As Scott said in his post, 50cycles were ordering bikes from China with NiMH, but none were coming through. Indeed, they seemed to have great difficulty getting batteries of either type.

So, I suppose there are quite a few users like me (ezee Torq) who have come to enjoy their e-bike experience, like to use it as much as possible, but have to go through a period of abstinence with no batteries that can achieve the distance.

I am back into a good phase - I wanted to switch to NiMH batteries and still have one on order from 2 December. At Christmas, Mr.Ching came forward with offers of replacement Li-ion, one of which I collected from Loughborough.
(I bought a second from ebikes in Canada to experiment with sharing the workload between 2 batteries wired in parallel)

Little did we know at the time that the batteries put up in Mr.Ching's offer were the very same batteries that 50cycles had on order for customers, making it very difficult for 50cycles to decide on priorities.


So, I think it has been a difficult time for ezee customers to remain loyal when some have had to cut back on using the bike until the battery supply side has been sorted.

Certainly, there has been confusion whilst Mr.Ching told us that there was no shortage of batteries, yet they often seemed to be in short supply in the UK. Perhaps this indicates that ezee are enjoying success around the world.


Possibly this explains why some staunch supporters of 50cycles have been having a moment of doubt. Once everyone gets fully equipped again, and enjoying the better weather, spirits should return to the same level as last Summer.

Now that the life of batteries is more clearly understood, the misleading claims on expected life will have disappeared, and shortages at the end of this Summer should not occur.

James

 

[musicbooks]

If you look around this forum you will see posts praising and posts decrying 50cycles. That is perhaps only to be expected, but one or two posters on here do seem to have serious issues with that company.

Up to now I have tried on this forum to stick to technical issues. But with regret I now have to add my name to those who are thoroughly pissed off with 50cycles and their attitude to some customers and potential customers.

Now I don't say this lightly and I don't base it on one incident. But I have now had four attempts to do business with them and each time I have come away feeling insulted and aggrieved.

Nor do I say this in haste. Since the last incident, I have waited over 48 hours to see if my views would change after two nights sleeping on it, and also to give Tim Snaith a chance to respond to an email. Well, they haven't, and he hasn't.

It has been suggested in other threads that this sort of thing shouldn't be posted, that its perhaps politically incorrect to post criticism of some peoples' favourite distributor. Or even that its just boring, people don't want to read about individual private disputes.

They probably don't, so let's look at the very public one that's going on - between 50cycles and eZee. 50cycles are very keen to blame a lot of things on eZee, and the head of eZee has blatantly posted on this forum that he considers his UK distributor in a less favourable light than others.

Both 50cycles and eZee are now encouraging individuals here to deal directly with eZee in China. In my experience this is a situation that is absolutely unprecedented between a distributor and a manufacturer. Compare it for instance with the way in which the Kalkhoff brand is being handled. To be honest, it is hard to see 50cycles remaining as the eZee sole distributor.

I trust that up to now, people on this forum, would remember me as a person who when faced with a problem, tries to find a solution rather than either being a whinging git or looking for someone to blame.

I'm sorry if you think I have strayed from that, but these things are fair comment and they need to be said. Clearly something is rotten in the state of Loughborough.

Nick

Other than the delay in delivery, which I now believe is completely outwith their control, I have no complaints so far with 50 cycles. In particular, Scott has responded to emails and phone calls swiftly and with courtesy, sometimes during out of office hours.
musicbooks

 

[jimmyengland1000]

- I would be beating a path to their door to speak to them in person not bleating about it here.

Bleating? Bit of a value judgement there, isn't it and on the derogatory side, I'd say. I mean, who are you to class legitimate recounting of problems with a supplier as "bleating" exactly? I believe that pointing out poor service from a company, supplier or whatever and wanting other people to know that there are problems is a GOOD thing to do and, yes, I did beat a path to their door and I did get a refund of my £240 deposit after listening to one excuse after another. Oh yes, and I did post messages here to let other people know that I had completely useless service, excuse after excuse and broken delivery promises so that some unsuspecting potential purchaser wouldn't have to suffer the same nonsense. Baaaa

 

[tgame]

Have you decided on what your new bike is to be yet, Jimmy. Many of us are agog to hear you know!

 

[jimmyengland1000]

Hi Citrus,

But if you read 50cycles responses on this forum, they are high-handed and arrogant. The attitude is take it or leave it, we're right and you're wrong. When things can't be resolved between the parties then it is inevitable, and correct, that it gets reported on the forum.

Nick

Absolutely. While ever these people are sole suppliers of Kalkhoff bikes, I won't be buying one. I like e-bikes etc etc but not enough to tolerate that kind of attitude from anyone. A person spending £1200 deserves honesty, courtesy and professionalism. No electric bike in the world would make me accept less than that and my penultimate conversation with Scott of 50Cycles was enough to make me cancel my order.

I mean... what kind of business is it that makes people want NOT to deal with them? And where the attitude of the staff in a phone call is enough to make someone who really wants what they're selling and who has paid a large deposit just CANCEL their order? And I bet they still don't accept that they're doing anything wrong. No way will they ever get my money for anything.

 

[jimmyengland1000]

Have you decided on what your new bike is to be yet, Jimmy. Many of us are agog to hear you know!

Who's "many of us", then? I'm agog to know.....

 

[tgame]

At my weight I count as two at least! But seriously the figures of messages read show that many people did read your accounts, and will obviously be keen to know what you decided on.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Jimmi,
Maybe you won't have to go direct to 50cycles if you want a Kalkhoff in the not too distant future ? 50cycles Advanced Electric Bikes - Contact 50cycles on 01509 266656

John

 

[tgame]

At my weight I count as two at least! But seriously the figures of messages read show that many people did read your accounts, and will obviously be keen to know what you decide on.

 

[burncycle]

My view is its 50cycles that will ultimately suffer about all of these issue's.
They will always be a small company if they do not change and adapt.
I went to the 50cycles shop today and i could not find it anywhere.
Someone eventually pointed to a seemingly empty unit with no sign on it.
I walked in and the place look like they had just moved in.
Tom at the unit was very helpful, though they were no bikes made ready for me to ride, even though I phoned to make an appointment today to demo the bikes.
The bikes were great, though the appearence of the place didnt instill confidence in me at all.
The place looked like they could packup and move out just as quickly if needed.
It didnt make a good impression all in all. Go to evans and they really have their socks pulled up.
My money stays in my pocket at this present time and that will hurt 50cycles just by my personal experience.
If any business doesnt deliver any of its promises then a refund is not acceptable in my opinion. They should be offering you a discount and still deliver to its customer !

 

[jimmyengland1000]

At my weight I count as two at least! But seriously the figures of messages read show that many people did read your accounts, and will obviously be keen to know what you decide on.

Don't knock yourself, Tony, we're all different. Big is beautiful, they say....

Well, following a great tip-off by Aldby (thanks John )I bought a German Wisper 905SE, imported by John, sold here in the UK just before Xmas, used for 2 miles and then deemed surplus to requirements because the person for whom it was bought got a job too far away to cycle.

As I mentioned before, I had a Wisper 905e which I was not happy with and did quite a lot of modifications on it to improve it. I also wrote a report for Wisper and several of my suggestions were implemented on the 905SE. Vastly better forks, thicker rear spokes, better tyres etc etc. Also other improvements like the AH of the battery + others. However, the new price of the 905SE (£1200) put me off, as did Wisper's attitude to warranty work on the 'grey import' German ones. However, the one I just bought is effectively 'as new' and I paid £725 for it. There's obviously no warranty with it but, at that price, I think it's a good buy and, following the many postings here, I reckon I could track down a motor, controller or whatever if it ever packed in.

If the 905SE is as improved as Wisper claim, then I'll be happy. It's a very quiet motor. I like the automatic nature of the pedelec, ie kicking in without having to use a throttle all the time and I do like the looks of the bike. I regularly did 26 miles on my 905e with a bit of juice to spare (on a 10AH battery as opposed to the new 14AH version) and it is a light bike.

OK, it may not be as good as the Panasonic motored Agattu but at least it'll be here next Tuesday, ready for our globally-warmed early spring...... "A Wisper in the hand is worth two Agattus somewhere in Germany" as they say

 

[jimmyengland1000]

I walked in and the place look like they had just moved in.
the appearence of the place didnt instill confidence in me at all.
The place looked like they could packup and move out just as quickly if needed.
It didnt make a good impression all in all.

I'm pleased you took the time to post this information as I think it explains a lot regarding attitude. It also illustrates how having an internet website, banner ads and the on-line trappings of being a "company" can be so deceptive. Until you posted, I'd thought 50Cycles was a bike shop... you know, sign, window, stock etc etc. It just goes to show.

Having read your posting, I am very pleased that I cancelled my order and am pleased that they refunded my deposit. I only had 30 days left to dispute the transaction on my credit card and the thought occurred to me that I would lose this money completely if I waited too long and found them no longer trading. Looking at what you've observed, I think I did the right thing.