What bike is best for learning the Knowledge of London (black cab) on?

[flecc]

Wisper have been around for over a decade now and their Chinese made designs have evolved and improved over that time. I don't know which motor that is using since they switched to the Japanese Dapu motor some while ago and I don't know if they've stayed with it. So that's an unknown to me, though if so, Japanese products are usually pretty good for reliability.

The megarange battery is a 16 Ah one, so I still can't see an average cyclist getting 50 miles from it in the stop-start running for the knowledge. A pair of the standard batteries giving 20 Ah total should do the distance ok. As ever though, range depends on how much the rider puts in.
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[Cyclezee]

I wish there was one Lee, but sadly there isn't.

Your Golf is like that due to well over a century of car design and manufacture in huge numbers.

E-bikes only started to be seriously designed 16 years ago and have been made in relatively tiny numbers. No-ones even decided where the motor should go yet, front hub, rear hub, bottom bracket or over a front or rear wheel.

Eight years ago the Kalkhoff Agattu seemd to be getting close, but they are currently suffering all sorts of problems with their Impulse 2 drive units. And as I've mentioned previously, the new Bosch motor unit has a chain and sprocket wear problem, ruling out many quality e-bikes from qualifying to be a two wheeled Golf.

Best bet now for reliability and low maintenance in my opinion would be a known quality make using either a newer model Suzhou Bafang hub motor like the BPM or the eZee hub motor, and using hydraulic disc brakes.

As for gears, for the two to three years doing the knowledge, a hub gear would need the least maintenance, but good derailleurs well set up can be ok.
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The German company Heinzmann have been making reliable electric bike motors since 1920 and in car terms the Heinzmann Classic motor is more akin to a Volvo than VW, tough as old boots and goes on for ever. The latest Heinzmann direct drive system has no wearing surfaces inside the motor so in the long term it should be just as good if not better than the Classic.

The Classic and DD are available in retro kit form and the DD is also available as a complete bike http://cyclezee.com/heinzmann-e-bikes--pedelecs.html

eZee have been making electric bikes for 15 years, they are probably the best electric bikes made in China, originally, they like many others used generic parts and what ever was available, but over the years they have developed, designed and manufactured many of their own parts and components which are recognised worldwide for durability, reliability and value for money.

 

[flecc]

The German company Heinzmann have been making reliable electric bike motors since 1920 and in car terms the Heinzmann Classic motor is more akin to a Volvo than VW, tough as old boots and goes on for ever. The latest Heinzmann direct drive system has no wearing surfaces inside the motor so in the long term it should be just as good if not better than the Classic.

Yes, I did advise Lee that a Direct Drive motor is optimal for the most reliable long term use, and the Heinzmann one is as good as such motor can be.

He'd need it coupled to plenty of battery capacity for 50 miles of stop-start daily use.
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[Cyclezee]

Yes, I did advise Lee that a Direct Drive motor is optimal for the most reliable long term use, and the Heinzmann one is as good as such motor can be.

He'd need it coupled to plenty of battery capacity for 50 miles of stop-start daily use.
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Personally I have done 45 miles on a Heinzmann PAN eTR-U with 14.5 Ah battery and torque sensor, no throttle over mixed terrain using varying levels of assist but I am a few stones lighter than Lee.

I would have though he might able to get over 50 miles with 2 x Heinzmann 11Ah batteries.

The Ceres eST with stepthru frame has an 11Ah rack mounted battery. The version we have has hydraulic disc brakes, QR front wheel and 27 gears for £1195.

 

[flecc]

Personally I have done 45 miles on a Heinzmann PAN eTR-U with 14.5 Ah battery and torque sensor, no throttle over mixed terrain using varying levels of assist but I am a few stones lighter than Lee.

I would have though he might able to get over 50 miles with 2 x Heinzmann 11Ah batteries.

It's the stop-starting to take notes etc when doing the knowledge that will shorten the range though, the much lower efficiency of any electric motor when accelerating from a standstill each time draining current.

I think 20 Ah would be enough though, so the 2 x 11 Ah should meet Lee's needs.
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[trex]

Lee, do you go for one zone or all zones?

 

[Lee123]

Wisper have been around for over a decade now and their Chinese made designs have evolved and improved over that time. I don't know which motor that is using since they switched to the Japanese Dapu motor some while ago and I don't know if they've stayed with it. So that's an unknown to me, though if so, Japanese products are usually pretty good for reliability.

The megarange battery is a 16 Ah one, so I still can't see an average cyclist getting 50 miles from it in the stop-start running for the knowledge. A pair of the standard batteries giving 20 Ah total should do the distance ok. As ever though, range depends on how much the rider puts in.
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thanks flecc

 

[Lee123]

Lee, do you go for one zone or all zones?

if youre referring to taxi then all zones, green badge

 

[Lee123]

Personally I have done 45 miles on a Heinzmann PAN eTR-U with 14.5 Ah battery and torque sensor, no throttle over mixed terrain using varying levels of assist but I am a few stones lighter than Lee.

I would have though he might able to get over 50 miles with 2 x Heinzmann 11Ah batteries.

The Ceres eST with stepthru frame has an 11Ah rack mounted battery. The version we have has hydraulic disc brakes, QR front wheel and 27 gears for £1195.
View attachment 13209

that looks like and sounds like it could do the job, just the range needs to be sorted out but like i say im not put off by buying 2 batteries.
if i were to get this serviced once a year would that generally surfice?

 

[RobF]

Don't be too quick to rule out a Bosch powered bike.

The small front chain ring will inevitably wear faster than a full-size one, but they last thousands of miles and in any case the small Bosch ring is cheap and easy to replace.

Your workhorse bike would have the same qualities as a commuter bike, which leads me to suggest hub gears at the rear - the crank drive allows you to have those.

The Shimano eight speed hub is bomb proof - unlike my 11speed Alfine - and you can change gear at rest which will come in handy for all the stops and starts in London.

This KTM would do, although the Bosch system is only fitted to decent quality bikes, so there's no need to get too hung up on the brand.

http://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk/prod/ele_0136_kt/ktm-macina-bold-8-26inch-a5-2016-electric-bike

 

[trex]

if youre referring to taxi then all zones, green badge

the reason I asked is because you are expected to ride 20,000 to 30,000 miles for your green badge exams - does it sound right?

 

[Lee123]

the reason I asked is because you are expected to ride 20,000 to 30,000 miles - does it sound right?

i understood anywhere between 12-15,000 but could be wrong

 

[Lee123]

Don't be too quick to rule out a Bosch powered bike.

The small front chain ring will inevitably wear faster than a full-size one, but they last thousands of miles and in any case the small Bosch ring is cheap and easy to replace.

Your workhorse bike would have the same qualities as a commuter bike, which leads me to suggest hub gears at the rear - the crank drive allows you to have those.

The Shimano eight speed hub is bomb proof - unlike my 11speed Alfine - and you can change gear at rest which will come in handy for all the stops and starts in London.

This KTM would do, although the Bosch system is only fitted to decent quality bikes, so there's no need to get too hung up on the brand.

http://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk/prod/ele_0136_kt/ktm-macina-bold-8-26inch-a5-2016-electric-bike

looks a nice again but doesnt give any details about range etc or am i missing something

 

[soundwave]

depends what setting you use and how much effort you can put in can get 28 miles on mine in turbo on the flat

 

[Cyclezee]

that looks like and sounds like it could do the job, just the range needs to be sorted out but like i say im not put off by buying 2 batteries.
if i were to get this serviced once a year would that generally surfice?

Hi Lee,
Servicing requirements are relatively minimal and once a year would be probably be adequate.
We are just 20 miles up the M1 from Luton, so if you want a test ride let me know and we can arrange that for you.

 

[RobF]

looks a nice again but doesnt give any details about range etc or am i missing something

It has the bigger - for Bosch - 500wh/13ah battery.

Range for your use will be about the same as any other legal ebike with the same sized battery.

Although Bosch bikes can appear to have a slightly better range because the system encourages you to put in more effort.

Much depends on how much assist you ask of the bike, headwinds and hills.

You might not get a lot of the last two in central London, but as flecc says, the stop/start nature of your riding will increase consumption.

It's down to educated guesswork, but I again agree with flecc when he says you will need 20ah or so to ride all day in London.

So that's two batteries for a Bosch bike, and for most others you are thinking of.

 

[Lee123]

Hi Lee,
Servicing requirements are relatively minimal and once a year would be probably be adequate.
We are just 20 miles up the M1 from Luton, so if you want a test ride let me know and we can arrange that for you.

thanks, ill be in touch

 

[Lee123]

It has the bigger - for Bosch - 500wh/13ah battery.

Range for your use will be about the same as any other legal ebike with the same sized battery.

Although Bosch bikes can appear to have a slightly better range because the system encourages you to put in more effort.

Much depends on how much assist you ask of the bike, headwinds and hills.

You might not get a lot of the last two in central London, but as flecc says, the stop/start nature of your riding will increase consumption.

It's down to educated guesswork, but I again agree with flecc when he says you will need 20ah or so to ride all day in London.

So that's two batteries for a Bosch bike, and for most others you are thinking of.

thanks Rob sounds good!

 

[flecc]

Re: Bosch crank motor versus hub motor. These e-bike systems are very different in use, so it's important to try each since the choice is very personal. It's not uncommon for someone to hate one but like the other, very much a marmite thing in practice.
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[Lee123]

Re: Bosch crank motor versus hub motor. These e-bike systems are very different in use, so it's important to try each since the choice is very personal. It's not uncommon for someone to hate one but like the other, very much a marmite thing in practice.
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hopefully ill get to test a few out tomorrow!