Well, I have just gone and done it - Kalkhoff BS10 ordered today

[flapajack]

this is not a loaded question... I'm genuinely interested in the answer.

How do you feel about the fact its not UK road legal, and if caught using it on the road the bike could be crushed?

I'm guessing 50cycles told you about this problem with the 350w bikes that are available, so I'm just interesting in the thought process that made you comfortable with the purchase.

They are a growing number of people who seem prepared to ride illegal bikes on the UK roads.

Regards
Col.

My answer is that you should have due consideration for others - at all times. I see nothing wrong with riding at 20mph down a hill or on an empty road, or in a park provide there is no danger to anyone else - I ride faster than this on my push bikes. I exceed the speed limit regularly in my motorcycles but only when it is safe to do so - and I suspect this is the case for many of us. Find me someone who claimed to never have exceeded the speed limit .

If you ride recklessly and endanger other road/path uses then you deserved what is coming. This applies whether you are on a push bike, a pedelecs, a motorcycles, cars, whatever. Due consideration to others is the keyword here.

For me, having the ability to keep up with traffic lessens the dangers. It is like a choice of using an empty bus lane on my motorbike for a couple of seconds, or filtering between rows of stationary cars with bored drivers who are more likely to switch lanes without checking or indicating into any available gaps - as they don't expect anything to becoming up between the cars. I would use the bus lane in most instances for my own safety - same for my pedelec.

 

[flapajack]

Rubbish,do you write articles for the Sun?Don'tlet the truth get in the way of a good story.the legal KTM e-race Panasonic will easily match the performance of the illegal BS10.
Although the OP assures us that his posting is impartial,I always get concerned when a subjective posting gets turned into a one make advert.
I have just come back from Italy and no e-bike can be sold in that country unless it has an EN 15194 certificate. No certificate....big fines and in the crusher it goes!!!!!
Dave

You are right in that I only tried one make of ebike - Kalkhoff. Taking into account the spec and looks, quality and price Kalkhoff wins hands down for me.

I would have prefer to spend less but in the end decided a bit more money is worth it, given in will be riding quite some distance daily and would not have like being on a bike that I dislike due to too much compromises.

 

[flapajack]

Colin,stick with legal bikes..we have just sold a KTM Macina Sport,the purchaser may have bought an illegal from a nearby rival but he didn't like the evasive way his questions were answered, and any way the Sport was the better bike.
KudosDave

Sorry that I am only now responding to your post - but I have been out this evening having a "work jolly" after a full days meeting . Given what I do and how hard I work, I deserved it

 

[flapajack]

If only you were discussing. Instead you all seem determined to indulge in childish mudslinging.
Getting back to the crux of the OP - how can someone get an illegal bike on any of the C2W schemes?

I don't think anyone cares, TBH. The Cyclescheme only wants your money, and the vouchers are issued for you to spend how you wish.

 

[flapajack]

My my there are a lot of fray nerves today aren't there. You will noticed this posting is late as I only just got back, but feel it important to give you some insights incase of accusations of favouritism or ******* like that.

 

[Geebee]

If I am riding my e-bike and a non e-bike powers past me, as does happen at times, I feel that I should, legally be able to travel at the same speed under motor assistance.

Why not? On or off a cycle track.

Where do you draw the limit, when fit and training regularly I could sprint above 60kph for a short burst (non e-bike), so should that be the limit?
My Tonaro does a pretty good approximation of a moderately fit cyclist on mostly motor only, I overtake part time/pleasure cyclists and can almost hang with a fast commuter. Proviso hilly terrain.
When healthy, so I could add a reasonable input very fit roadies were the only people that past me unless I was taking it easy, why should an assist by itself be as fast as trained racer? that is not an average cyclist.
How many deaths in the 14~16 year age bracket do you think a 60 kph bike would cause?

 

[SRS]

"How many deaths in the 14~16 year age bracket do you think a 60 kph bike would cause?"

Geebee, what are you going on about? kids at nearly 40 mph.

 

[jackhandy]

This thread is hilarious!
Keep going guys, it's better than anything on T.V

But very, very sad, at the same time

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Don't forget about all the EN15194 compliant (sort of) bikes that have LCDs where you can re-program the speed limit in the LCD, which is a fair proportion of bikes sold in UK, and then there's those with a pair of wires that you can unplug. Nobody seems to be complaining about that, so leave 50cycles alone, nearly everybody's doing it because that's what many customers want.

 

[Tim]

Don't forget about all the EN15194 compliant (sort of) bikes that have LCDs where you can re-program the speed limit in the LCD, which is a fair proportion of bikes sold in UK, and then there's those with a pair of wires that you can unplug. Nobody seems to be complaining about that, so leave 50cycles alone, nearly everybody's doing it because that's what many customers want.

And then there are the dongles that are being openly sold and could see bikes not designed or specced to handle higher speeds (due to insufficient brakes, tyres, lighting, etc) achieving them without any kind of type approval.

 

[Geebee]

"How many deaths in the 14~16 year age bracket do you think a 60 kph bike would cause?"

Geebee, what are you going on about? kids at nearly 40 mph.

What age are kids allowed to ride ebikes?
If you want to have the same speed as those that overtake you that would be around the speed required, if that was made the legal speed kids would be riding them.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

And then there are the dongles that are being openly sold and could see bikes not designed or specced to handle higher speeds (due to insufficient brakes, tyres, lighting, etc) achieving them without any kind of type approval.

ok - I'll bite.

You can't use that argument to justify the fact that you're selling bikes that aren't legally allowed to be used on the road, and clearly from the evidence of your customers - you're not telling them prior to them being sold.

That would be like me saying....

Its fine for me to rob someone's house, simple because other people are committing burglary elsewhere.

Not a good defence I'm afraid.

If you're not happy about the dongles being sold, and to be honest you have my 100% support on that point, do something about it. Don't sell bikes that are illegal to use and use that to justify you're point.

We're currently having some problems with a guys threatening to take us to court because we won't tell him how to de-restrict his KTM eBike. He seriously things we'd be happy to tell him how to do it. If in 6 months time he crashes into someones Ferrari, or worse child! and then in court says "KTM told me it was ok"... do you think we want that on our plate. No thanks.

The eBike market is about to explode, because the big bike brands in the UK, ie Cube are getting involved. They are the number 4 or 5 bike brand in the UK, so if they (and they are) start getting eBikes into their stores they are going to be much more common, which is good for everyone. However if the knowledge about them increase amongst the general population, its not going to be long before these 350w bikes get onto the radar and there could be a lot of people very unhappy about having spent thousands on bikes they really can't get away with using on the roads.

I asked the question because I wanted to know what the OP was thinking, and he's answered my question which was helpful. The discussion that followed has been equally interesting.

Col.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Lets stop this Tim I have had people in my shop complaining about poor service from your company. However we can not take what we hear as gospel. Even if a BH did not meet the regulations what concern is it to you? You sell bikes that no-one can question are illegal whereas there is no evidence to show the BH is.

I am honest enough to admit you sell good bikes so why do you seem obessed with bringing many threads down to play school level. After all you are now 40.

If you sell good bikes let them do the talking there is no need for threads to be like this, we can keep it interesting without this.

Note I am not against these illegal bikes but do not like it when people are not informed there was a forum member who was sold a bike by 50 Cycles who reported on here they were not informed of its illegality.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/kalkhoff-endevour-bs10-or-focus-jalfira-premium-xt.16863/#post-207603

Come on guys.

Also there is no need to phone me shouting. No need for it!

 

[Tim]

Lets stop this Tim I have had people in my shop complaining about poor service from your company. However we can not take what we hear as gospel. Even if a BH did not meet the regulations what concern is it to you? You sell bikes that no-one can question are illegal whereas there is no evidence to show the BH is.

I am honest enough to admit you sell good bikes so why do you seem obessed with bringing many threads down to play school level. After all you are now 40.

If you sell good bikes let them do the talking there is no need for threads to be like this, we can keep it interesting without this.

Come on guys

You couldn't substantiate any of this when I called you just now. We were among the first companies to import BH electric bicycles actually and we walked away from them due to quality, reliability and integrity issues. We brought a Neo bike to the Cycle Show in 2011, it was very nice and powerful, if lacking in range, comfort and equipment, but clearly not entirely confirming to EN15194.

 

[Tim]

I think the original poster's account of his visit to our shop, the service he received and the fact he was a fully-informed buyer answer all the questions on this thread. Everything else is sour grapes.

 

[Tim]

You couldn't substantiate any of this when I called you just now. We were among the first companies to import BH electric bicycles actually and we walked away from them due to quality, reliability and integrity issues. We brought a Neo bike to the Cycle Show in 2011, it was very nice, but clearly not entirely confirming to EN15194.

In particular, in the interests of allowing prospective buyers an opportunity to try as many bikes as possible, we'd love to come along to the Norfolk Bike Show you're promoting here http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/norfolk-cycle-show.16984/#post-209655

 

[Tim]

Also there is no need to phone me shouting. No need for it!

There's no need to single out a business to promote your own. Who rattled your cage?

 

[trex]

...
We brought a Neo bike to the Cycle Show in 2011, it was very nice and powerful, if lacking in range, comfort and equipment, but clearly not entirely confirming to EN15194.

in what way? we debated EN15194 to death many times on this forum, the general consensus is, if the manufacturer says it conforms to EN15194, then it does.
There is no reason to say if you can pull wheelies with a bike then it won't pass the test. Manufacturers do not have to put their bikes through the test if they think it will pass. Ansmann for example just give their customers a declaration of conformity.
If I were in the market for an s-pedelec (don't rush to calling me, I am not), I would expect my seller to have valid product liability insurance covering s-pedelec. It will then be up to me to face the consequences if I ride the bike un-insured, without helmet etc.. We are all old enough to do our own research before commiting to a purchase.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Having bought a BS10 in November I found it to be a magnificent beast in the two days I owned it for .Having bought it for cycle track and road use I was unamused to find that it was illegal for road and cycle track use
It`s assisted speed was beyond current allowed legislation and uninsurable to boot !

I do not think the above or his other posts show this. Regarding BH they are confirming to EN15194. Regarding complaints one of the people bought an Oxygen bike off you however I am not going to give it out personal details without permission. The point I was making is you can not take everything someone says as fact.

Regarding the Norfolk Cycle Show I am happy to work with other companies in future years but only ones I trust and who behave honourably and from you attitude and abuse on the phone you are not a company I want to deal with as well as speaking to a some of your dealers (when you sold Kalkhoff to other dealers). Why after the abuse I recieved on the phone would I want you there?

 

[elad770]

Morning all, long-time lurker but have been following this topic with interest whenever it rears its ugly head!

Could I ask how many of the S-class bikes that have been sold have been successfully registered for use on our roads in the UK?

It seems you Tim would be best placed to answer this question?