Very lightweight e-bikes

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I don't get the bit about it still looking Chinese. What feature/s is/are that?. I''m no expert, but it looks just like any other modern road bike to me, Please explain to me the differences.

Scott (or are they Chinese too)
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/sc/scott-speedster-s60-triple-2006-road-bike.jpg

Annad (maybe Chinese frame, rest world source)
http://www.annad.net/productsinfo-id=6.php.htm
The Scott has almost the typical road bike frame geometry, which is normally horizontal crossbar, almost vertical seat pillar and long seatstays. This one is more typical of good road bike geometry though.

The Annad has a frame more towards the typical Chinese e-bike style, sloping cross bar, shorter seatstays and slightly more sloping seat pillar. Of course this helps to save a little weight.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
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annad also cut a large hole in the head tube to install the battery.
Is this sensible? their design forces the top tube and down tube to have a round section to accomodate the battery, not good.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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Nothing personal, Trex. I just hate unjustified naysaying. Sorry, I just can't help reacting.

You're right. There is a lot of brand loyalty, almost to the point of snobbishness. I bet those £6000 Haibikes sell better than their £4000 ones, simply because they're more expensive. Good luck to them if that's what they want.

Back to the Annad. I think that they'd sell quite well in London. I''m not sure Kudos would be the right name for them. I think Dave needs to think of a more appropriate brand name for them. You're right, that is the one thing that makes them look not so classy.
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Don't worry Trex,though I appreciate your concern. The bikes are very low volume production by chinese volumes. It's not a bike that is suitable for Kudos volumes more an interesting type that should be imported in small volume.
I would be interested in importing a few,just to determine the viability and saleability of very light bikes at a mid range price level.
Such bikes may be interesting for Pedelec members to test.
KudosDave
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Nothing personal, Trex. I just hate unjustified naysaying. Sorry, I just can't help reacting.

You're right. There is a lot of brand loyalty, almost to the point of snobbishness. I bet those £6000 Haibikes sell better than their £4000 ones, simply because they're more expensive. Good luck to them if that's what they want.

Back to the Annad. I think that they'd sell quite well in London. I''m not sure Kudos would be the right name for them. I think Dave needs to think of a more appropriate brand name for them. You're right, that is the one thing that makes them look not so classy.
Dave/Trex,they would not be sold under the Kudos name,quite frankly they are too niche for that...I have an alternative if they are proven to be good quality.
I know they will be compared with KTM but they don't have bikes at this weight,I think they are a unique product at this time.
These bikes are getting lighter,2 years ago the average weight was 25 kgs,all our new perfomance range plus the small Tempo are now near 20 kgs. The lighter the bike the more it appeals to sports bike riders.
KudosDave
 

Artstu

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2009
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The lighter the bike the more it appeals to sports bike riders
It is perhaps more for those who aspire to move up to be like a sports bike rider. Sports bike riders still view e-bikes as cheating and say they would never ride an e-bike. Perhaps one day that attitude will change?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I think they are a unique product at this time.
Cytronex are the closest at £1445 to £1795*, but with a bottle battery not quite as stealthy and not as light. Same market though.

*Though the all carbon Super Six is price on application.
 
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Kudoscycles

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It is perhaps more for those who aspire to move up to be like a sports bike rider. Sports bike riders still view e-bikes as cheating and say they would never ride an e-bike. Perhaps one day that attitude will change?
Artstu....the attitudes towards electric bikes by younger people is changing. 4 years ago I heard that cheating comment a lot, but at the last cycle show I hardly heard it and many 20-30 something people were very interested in e-bikes.
I think that we are offering the bikes they want to buy,the Kudos,KTM and Haibikes that we had on show were so much sexier than our Dutch style classic bikes that it is becoming cool to ride one-also the electrics are much more stealth now.
KudosDave
 
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Croxden

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Jan 26, 2013
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I met three proper bikers at the weekend, all liked my bike and thought it a good idea, but not for them, yet. One had just bought an ebike for his wife and thought it was great. So things are a-changing.
 

jackhandy

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May 20, 2012
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the Cornish Alps
I find that the racing cyclists I know only stand up and take notice when you completely annihilate their segment times. :D

http://app.strava.com/activities/74896921
Funny, I find the mtb lads to be quite impressed when I accelerate away from them when they're flogging their guts out up the long drag back from the bottom of the big downhill sections:

Is there a pattern here? :rolleyes:
 
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Artstu

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I think there's a perception that all e-bikes are slow Chinese made things that aren't really proper bikes. Clearly that perception is changing.

and my bike is considered slow, low powered and a poor climber in e-bike circles. How fast would I be on one of these more powerful machines that everyone talks about?
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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How fast would I be on one of these more powerful machines that everyone talks about?
It's brilliant. Most of the lycras can't figure it out. Saneagle and I have had some really enjoyable races. One trick is to go slowly looking for them coming from behind, and then use your mirror to keep about 30 to 50 meters ahead. They can't get close enough to see why they can't catch up. Then you pull out a bit of a lead on a nice hill and gradually disappear into the distance, but then you stop for a rest and let them catch up. They think that they're about to get the answers to all their questions, but when they get to about 50 meters, you jump on your bike and make them play catch-up again. This game works really well on national cycle routes because you know that they'll be going the same way as you. Of course this game can be played with electric bikes as well. I guess one day I'll meet my match. In the meantime, I'll have my fun.

Another game I used to play is called the "creaking crank", You convert a bike with an Octalink crank that always creaks when you pedal so that it makes a clear pedalling sound. Then you engage high speed and go looking for prey on the national cycle routes, where you know there'll be plenty of victims. When you find one/some, you approach more slowly from behind so that they can hear your creaking crank gradually getting closer. Then you keep about 10 meters behind and watch their vain attempts to try and shake you off. You mustn't overtake because it'll give the game away.They'll look behind to see an old geezer in a heavy coat on a creaking MTB, but they can't see that it's electric.
.
 

iain85

Pedelecer
Aug 5, 2010
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Reading D8veh's post made me laugh.

I performed a similar trick up a particular steep hill near me. Although the temptation to over take took the better of me and I just 'hello' and smiled and the Lycra clad chaps ignored me! So I waited at the top of the hill for them and did as you said maintained a distance from them as they tried to chase me down to see what the explanation was for me flying past them up the hill!
I suppose as the popularity of e-bikes increases these examples of Tom foolery will diminish. Sad times : )
 

Artstu

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Aug 2, 2009
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Go to a local hill climb time trial evening and you may actually find yourself being embarrassed by not being able to keep up with the fastest riders.
 
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OldPedaller

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Aug 20, 2011
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These bikes are getting lighter,2 years ago the average weight was 25 kgs,all our new perfomance range plus the small Tempo are now near 20 kgs. The lighter the bike the more it appeals to sports bike riders.
KudosDave
And weight's important to the increasing number of us motorhomers, who have to be more aware of weight at the back. Not just because of total allowed load weights but also lifting them on - some motorhome bike racks are quite high. I had to swap mine out for a towbar mounted carrier with the latest van as it was just too high to lift.

BTW Dave I PM'd you on a different topic. Did you see it?
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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So far,communicating with Annad is not easy...I am not sure how keen these guys are....their boss speaks no English and my Mandarin is very poor,2 words actually.
Also,the latest Kudos bikes are down to low 20 KGs even using BPM motors,I am not sure that many customers would pay upwards of £500 more just to save 5 KGs. And I do like that BPM motor,it seems to offer all we want out of these bikes without the complexity of crank drive,the Keyde motor is an unknown product to me.
I don't like the idea of having to remove the headstock to access the battery,I assume that is necessary?. For me a better solution,with such a lightweight battery,is to put the battery inside the seat tube.
At this moment I cannot find out if they are exhibiting at the Shanghai Cycle show but they have invited me to their factory,it's not far away from another supplier so I will try.
The bikes look very interesting,they are clearly a small company and maybe only interested in one-off type builds.
Perhaps I will do better when I meet these guys.
Old pedaller,have replied to your PM,sorry it took me some time to figure out how to access PM's in the new format
KudosDave
 
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D

Deleted member 4366

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I don't like the idea of having to remove the headstock to access the battery,I assume that is necessary?. For me a better solution,with such a lightweight battery,is to put the battery inside the seat tube.
You don't have to remove anything other that a cover-plate on the front of the head-stock.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
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It must be a very small diameter battery or a big hole in the headstock?
Can't see how this works?
Dave
I think they run a 33V (9S) system - due to the space limitation