January 21, 201511 yr I am setting out on a long distance e-bike adventure in an attempt to set a new world e-bike record of more than 16,500kms at the end of April in the UK, Europe and Scandinavia. Given that I am keen to avoid the need to plug into mains electricity every day to charge my Haibike's BOSCH Powerpack 400wh battery I have looked extensively into solar, but have decided it is impractical for a number of reasons (lack of sunlight in the UK, cost, finding someone with the knowledge etc). As such I am now considering the merits of carrying a lightweight portable generator in my cycle trailer. Does anyone have any experience with charging e-bike batteries with a generator and if so are there any potential problems/issues that I should be aware of?
January 21, 201511 yr April onwards is long days and going north you could have 20 hours of sunshine a day! Even daylight can give power. Is solar out then? Using panels to charge lithium po batteries an then topping up your bosh is possible. How many watt hours a day do you need? In the UK using portable gen while moving would be risky on legal grounds
January 21, 201511 yr Just the weight. The lightest are around 9kg. You need fuel and a charger, which increases the weight to about 12kg. You won't be able to run the generator in a camp site because of the noise, so you need to build a trailer that can allow you to charge a spare battery while you're travelling. That's the exhaust pipe coming out the back. http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/General%20bike/SANY0162.jpg http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/General%20bike/SANY0164.jpg
January 21, 201511 yr April onwards is long days and going north you could have 20 hours of sunshine a day! The OP asked the solar question before on this link and we gave it a big thumbs down. The bikes in question have the Bosch Performance Line motors which are rather greedy as our member EddiePJ has just remarked about his, making solar even less likely to be a viable option. . Edited January 21, 201511 yr by flecc
January 21, 201511 yr Even the pair who travelled in warmer climes using solar recharging apparently carried 5 Bosch batteries. Though not sure if that was each or between them.
January 21, 201511 yr money no object ?methanol fuel cell then at 6.4kg and another 1/2kg for an invertor http://www.reliancemarine.com/Product/17324/Marine-Fuel-Cell/View.aspx?gclid=Cj0KEQiAuf2lBRDW07y3z6f96awBEiQA0IngJqIUt61yFahTbVPxD8pYwDBkZe8yzG8Sfm8QCFWoAzMaArTD8P8HAQ or http://www.orionairsales.co.uk/efoy-comfort-80-fuel-cell-generator-1748-p.asp?gclid=Cj0KEQiAuf2lBRDW07y3z6f96awBEiQA0IngJpyQsl9Z0NcrIJxif4_Ds5t43RQF9ItAgin1xWYb_JQaAksS8P8HAQ
January 21, 201511 yr @[uSER=4366]d8veh[/uSER] - wow! there is even room in your trailer for packing a tent, food and fuel. How noisy is the generator in that trailer? can you run the generator while riding to continuously recharge your battery?
January 21, 201511 yr Author I am setting out on a long distance e-bike adventure in an attempt to set a new world e-bike record of more than 16,500kms at the end of April in the UK, Europe and Scandinavia. Given that I am keen to avoid the need to plug into mains electricity every day to charge my Haibike's BOSCH Powerpack 400wh battery I have looked extensively into solar, but have decided it is impractical for a number of reasons (lack of sunlight in the UK, cost, finding someone with the knowledge etc). As such I am now considering the merits of carrying a lightweight portable generator in my cycle trailer. Does anyone have any experience with charging e-bike batteries with a generator and if so are there any potential problems/issues that I should be aware of?
January 21, 201511 yr Author I have no intention of charging the batteries on the move. The plan is to charge each day during the day so as not to cause noise problems in campgrounds at night where there might be mains power anyway. What I really need to know is if generators supply clean power that s not going to harm the Bosch batteries in any way. We are towing two Tout Terrain trailers, so have plenty of capacity to carry a small generator
January 21, 201511 yr In your position, I would charge from the mains on campsites.To achieve this, you need a bit of forward planning and some negotiating skills. They weigh very little.
January 21, 201511 yr What I really need to know is if generators supply clean power that s not going to harm the Bosch batteries in any way. Should be no problem if you are using AC 110-220 volts AC from the generator into the bike's chargers. The charger and the battery BMS will provided enough protection for any slight irregularities to be of no consequence. .
January 21, 201511 yr ... What I really need to know is if generators supply clean power that s not going to harm the Bosch batteries in any way. No problem there, look for 'pure sine wave' on the generator specs. They are computer controlled. Most modern generators have this.
January 21, 201511 yr Then again 40 watt solar panels at 665*550 sub 4Kg. Use two one each side. Using a lipo system to store power. 2 or 3 s 10 amp. An inverter to charge the bosh battery at lunch and evening. it could be done on most days. All up system for less than 15Kg and 1.2m^2 producing around an amp or so. Cost per system in the order £300 Plus fitting to trailers of course. Yes on realy dark days no power but on long days in the north it could work. It depends on how much power you want to use too. If your economical and do 100km days then I think that would do.
January 21, 201511 yr Author Should be no problem if you are using AC 110-220 volts AC from the generator into the bike's chargers. The charger and the battery BMS will provided enough protection for any slight irregularities to be of no consequence. . Thanks for the advice that was what I was wanting to know. Now to find a suitable generator - a Chinese cheapy or a name big money one??
January 21, 201511 yr All up system for less than 15Kg and 1.2m^2 producing around an amp or so. Cost per system in the order £300 Small Generator: Similar weight and cost, full charges every day and no range or consumption limits for those Bosch performance line motors. Solar you say "most days", so what happens on all the other days, carry a generator as well? Sorry Dave, but I can't see solar as viable for a whole trip, particularly with the low summer jetstream pattern of recent years sweeping large bands of cloud across the UK and Northern Europe throughout summer as well. .
January 21, 201511 yr Thanks for the advice that was what I was wanting to know. Now to find a suitable generator - a Chinese cheapy or a name big money one?? Chinese can be ok. On this link d8veh mentioned the Kipor brand and weights of around 9 to 10 kilos. Here's the link to: Kipor Generators The IG770 looks ideal at about 10 kilos. . Edited January 21, 201511 yr by flecc
January 21, 201511 yr Kipor is the lightest branded generator. The Chinese ones are a bit lighter and quieter if you can find the right one. I got mine from Woosh. See if they've got some more. It'll take 4 or 5 hours to charge a battery. How will you do that without charging on the move or running the generator in a camp site? If you're going to charge at camp sites, it would be much better to use the 12kg extra to get a couple of 6kg batteries to keep in each trailer. That should give you an extra 24aH (800wh) for each bike to give a range of at least 75 miles a day. Another thing: I don't think that Bosch bikes are well suited to this type of use. You'd be much better with something like an Ezee bike or any bike with a Bafang BPM motor. All the battery swapping, solar charging, etc. is a lot easier on bikes that don't tie you to OEM batteries, and the hub-motors will put a lot less strain on the transmission and are generally more relaxing to ride for long distances. To run an external battery with a Bosh, you only need to splice a connector onto the wires which run from the battery to the controller. They have to be approximately the same voltage when you connect, i.e. both fully charged. You have to run them in parallel because the controller has some communication with the Bosch battery to work.
January 21, 201511 yr @[uSER=4366]d8veh[/uSER] - wow! there is even room in your trailer for packing a tent, food and fuel. How noisy is the generator in that trailer? can you run the generator while riding to continuously recharge your battery? I built it for charging on the go. The generator is much quieter being fully enclosed. I put a piece of rubber tube on the exhaust to bring it outside the box. The longer exhaust also makes it quieter. Even with all that, it's not as quiet as the one that I got from Woosh.
January 21, 201511 yr Author Kipor is the lightest branded generator. The Chinese ones are a bit lighter and quieter if you can find the right one. I got mine from Woosh. See if they've got some more. It'll take 4 or 5 hours to charge a battery. How will you do that without charging on the move or running the generator in a camp site? If you're going to charge at camp sites, it would be much better to use the 12kg extra to get a couple of 6kg batteries to keep in each trailer. That should give you an extra 24aH (800wh) for each bike to give a range of at least 75 miles a day. Another thing: I don't think that Bosch bikes are well suited to this type of use. You'd be much better with something like an Ezee bike or any bike with a Bafang BPM motor. All the battery swapping, solar charging, etc. is a lot easier on bikes that don't tie you to OEM batteries, and the hub-motors will put a lot less strain on the transmission and are generally more relaxing to ride for long distances. To run an external battery with a Bosh, you only need to splice a connector onto the wires which run from the battery to the controller. They have to be approximately the same voltage when you connect, i.e. both fully charged. You have to run them in parallel because the controller has some communication with the Bosch battery to work. On mains electricity it takes 2hours for 80% charge and 3.5hours for 100% Can these times be expected with with generator power? The bikes are being sponsored, so the Bosch system it is. Why would it be any different charging them to any other sort of modern battery?
January 21, 201511 yr On mains electricity it takes 2hours for 80% charge and 3.5hours for 100% Can these times be expected with with generator power? In short, yes. The Kipor IG770 tank gives 3 hours run time so almost a full charge. The last stages of charge have the lowest gain so 3 hours will probably give you about 95% charge. .
January 21, 201511 yr Author In short, yes. The Kipor IG770 tank gives 3 hours run time so almost a full charge. The last stages of charge have the lowest gain so 3 hours will probably give you about 95% charge. . The Kipor generators look interesting 309 pounds on Amazon. Will look into them. Much better price that the 800 pounds or so for a Yamaha 1000
January 21, 201511 yr On mains electricity it takes 2hours for 80% charge and 3.5hours for 100% Can these times be expected with with generator power? The bikes are being sponsored, so the Bosch system it is. Why would it be any different charging them to any other sort of modern battery? The smallest Kipor can provide enough power to charge probably 4 Bosch batteries at a time - easily two. It's more difficult to solar charge Bosch batteries because they need a special charger. Also, you can't use a substitute battery of a different type without hacking into the wiring. For most other bikes, you can connect whatever battery you want and charge them from any source, solar or otherwise as long as you can get the charge voltage fixed at 42v for a 36v battery. If it were my Bosch bike, I'd do the hacking, but that won't be so easy if the bike doesn't belong to you. You can still charge a Bosch from a solar panel, but you need a charger, an inverter and a heavy 12v battery. With a generic battery, you only need a light inverter regulator. You can still do that with a Bosch, but, again, you need to hack the wiring.
January 21, 201511 yr Author The smallest Kipor can provide enough power to charge probably 4 Bosch batteries at a time - easily two. It's more difficult to solar charge Bosch batteries because they need a special charger. Also, you can't use a substitute battery of a different type without hacking into the wiring. For most other bikes, you can connect whatever battery you want and charge them from any source, solar or otherwise as long as you can get the charge voltage fixed at 42v for a 36v battery. If it were my Bosch bike, I'd do the hacking, but that won't be so easy if the bike doesn't belong to you. You can still charge a Bosch from a solar panel, but you need a charger, an inverter and a heavy 12v battery. With a generic battery, you only need a light inverter regulator. You can still do that with a Bosch, but, again, you need to hack the wiring. You have convinced me .............generator it is and probably a small Kipor. Thanks for everyone's help
January 21, 201511 yr You don't need a heavy lead acid battery. 3 s lipo will give you 11 volts to run an inverter. Charging at breakfast lunch and dinner means storing most power in the bosh battery where it's needed. At natural rest points. Reducing the lipo size required.
January 21, 201511 yr I don't think you'd need a generator inverter although I can imagine in remote places, it may give you some re-assurance. Assume that you want to do 150 miles a day. That would require about 1kWH. Using the best cells at present, that would be 10S8P of NCR 3400mAH. At 50g per cell, the custom pack would weigh only 4kgs. Surely, that can be carried easily on the rear luggage rack?
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