Yes, they knew I was just over an hour away. I told them that I'd charge £45 if they were to bring the bike to me, but they were "too busy".
If anything, I thought I undervalued my time.
Use it or lose it.. an interesting read.
- Thread starter Gubbins
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If anything, I thought I undervalued my time.
That's hopelessly unrealistic, danielrlee's figure nearer the mark but I think too low. It's irrelevant that it's "only a pushbike", premises, living wages, taxes and other costs are all the same regardless of what a business is doing.
Ther's some guidance from the known labour charges for motor mechanics, albeit a little out of date now. National average is a little over £84 an hour, cities where costs are higher rising accordingly. The London average is a just over £100 an hour, the highest recorded charge being a BMW dealer at £215. Franchised dealers are unsurprisingly more expensive than independants. Non franchised dealers average circa £65 nationally.
Of course only a small part goes to the mechanic, most is in all the associated costs of running the business.
Given all the running costs are similar regardless of whether it's a bike shop or garage and the person's living cost are also the same, comparable charges need to apply.
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My full suspension emtb is in for a service next week and am quoted £90. Someone said it's not rocket science but for me it might as well be .. I envision undoing the pivot bolts and it all flying apart like an unlocked spring. You need to know which bolts go in which holes, which bits to grease and which bits not and then tighted up to the correct torque... When air valley cycles closed down the mechanic set up on his own just doing service and repair but he has gone as well now.
Totally agree flecc. I underquoted and knew it at the time, but it was given for the purpose of 'testing the water' to find a cost that the market would bare. They were a typical customer though. In most of the instances that I've given a quote (around 20), the customer turned me down.
One small point however, is that micro businesses are much more streamlined than your typical multi-bay garage or dealership, operate on lower overheads, so can certainly charge less than the extortionate rates you mention.
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I think his comment was intended tongue in cheek as the emoji might imply. But the fundemental problem remains. If you can buy a new working bike for 150 quid, and it contains all the parts new, why would one as a consumer expect to pay more than 10 quid for any replacement part?. On the other hand if you pay 1500 for a brompton , you might be induced to pay 50 . And if you buy a super duper road racer at 6k , then you may pay hundreds, in the same way as a people pay fortunes for fly fishing rods and getting tennis racquets restrung or golf clubs repaired. But the kind of person who either rides a bike for sport or treking is probably resilient enough to do the minor maintenance or frugal.
I agree, and that is what I meant by comparable, price per sq.ft. the same but the smaller premises area taken into account for example.
Repair volumes count though, garages can rely on a steady flow of work given the numbers of cars in constant year round use, need for MOT's etc, but cycle dealers can experience quiet periods, especially in winter. Their costs don't go away. nor does their need to live, so the work when busier has to cover the quiet times.
Your proposed business is a good example. Having dealt with one breakdown you could go a long time before the next call, but you can't hibernate until that arrives.
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They're not just buying parts, they're buying parts & labour. A £150 retail bike likely contains parts resembling the quality of KitKat foil. If they want to source a £10 part from China, wait weeks for it to arrive and fit it themselves, they are free to do so. Expecting somebody else to do it for next to nothing is just tightwaddery.
My income is currently derived from a number of revenue streams, so another albeit inconsistent source of business could work for me. What I have discovered so far, is that it's more profitable to sell parts than fit them. It seems that the majority of people don't attribute much value to others' time.
The largest group of independent mobile bike techs in the UK are Cycle Tech - each is an independent operator (it's NOT a franchise), but shares common branding, work standards and ethics, access to bulk-buy parts, shared knowledge etc. I'd think it's a good place to look if you're considering a similar business.
They openly publish their own charge rates, and the limits of the area each tech will cover. They even offer opportunities to join them.
www.cycletechuk.com/p/unique-opportunity-to-join-cycle-tech.html
Thanks for your input. I've been aware of the existence of CycleTech since I started looking into the idea. My objection to operating under such a model is that not having your own branding is restrictive in the long-term. Unless I've misunderstood, their (my) customers would deal with 'CycleTech', not 'Dan's Bike Repairs'.
I am already far too involved with Amazon and Ebay and have plans to attempt to establish my own brand in the near-future. Adding another to the mix does not appeal to me in the slightest.
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My post was indeed tongue in cheek but it seems I may have touched a nerve.
Time is a massively undervalued commodity, usually, IME, by those who have none but have the money to make that irrelevant. If it's a job I can't do, it's either because I lack a specific tool (likely) or the skill to do it (unlikely, I'm an engineer) or the time (most likely, I have only a small time window at this time of year) I'll happily pay the fair rate to get the job done by someone who is capable of doing it.
Time is a massively undervalued commodity, usually, IME, by those who have none but have the money to make that irrelevant. If it's a job I can't do, it's either because I lack a specific tool (likely) or the skill to do it (unlikely, I'm an engineer) or the time (most likely, I have only a small time window at this time of year) I'll happily pay the fair rate to get the job done by someone who is capable of doing it.
No the cheap bike is viable and fit for purpose, otherwise it cannot have a ce mark and not made from rubbish. It may not have the longitivity of a 400 quid bike and may be discarded after three years .whereas the 400 oneone mi be used for 12.
I can feel your flustration, and the labour is your profit. But the fundemental point remains , customer expectations. .. if you are very reasonably going to charge 40 quid for a task and the part they will say to themselves "hell I can get a new one for just and something else is likely to fail .... "
It is a massive problem for anyone in service with mass production goods . The white goods people get around it , because you just need to get it repaired when the floor is full of water and dirty washing.
As a self employed electrician/carpenter, this,' what is my time worth balanced against what will the market stand', never goes away. As a sole trader I don't charge vat, have no back office staff to support, no premises costs (vehicle based) no employees NI etc.etc. All this is reflected in my charges, yet still people baulk. Being rural I don't even advertise and work solely from recommendation, reputation is everything here. Even so, I have had repeat customers who have gone to Ikea, or the like, for a kitchen and had it fitted by them (often poorly) at about 3 times the price I would charge. I don't get it.
Also the expectation that you will source cheap parts is frustrating, because if and when they fail the expectation is that you will change them with no charge for your time.
People don't appreciate that, when they hire some, they get access to all their tools (a considerable investment) and all their experience (50 years in my case).
I recently paid someone £45/hr to sort my pc out remotely. I couldn't do it, had to be done.
Conversly recently replaced a tap washer for a regular and didn't charge - seemed mean to do so. Only to get a call back after a week saying that the pipe had started banging since I did it. Return visit implied
Also the expectation that you will source cheap parts is frustrating, because if and when they fail the expectation is that you will change them with no charge for your time.
People don't appreciate that, when they hire some, they get access to all their tools (a considerable investment) and all their experience (50 years in my case).
I recently paid someone £45/hr to sort my pc out remotely. I couldn't do it, had to be done.
Conversly recently replaced a tap washer for a regular and didn't charge - seemed mean to do so. Only to get a call back after a week saying that the pipe had started banging since I did it. Return visit implied
I feel for you, I really do. I've been self-employed in one way or another for the last decade and can relate to your experiences.As a self employed electrician/carpenter, this,' what is my time worth balanced against what will the market stand', never goes away. As a sole trader I don't charge vat, have no back office staff to support, no premises costs (vehicle based) no employees NI etc.etc. All this is reflected in my charges, yet still people baulk. Being rural I don't even advertise and work solely from recommendation, reputation is everything here. Even so, I have had repeat customers who have gone to Ikea, or the like, for a kitchen and had it fitted by them (often poorly) at about 3 times the price I would charge. I don't get it.
Also the expectation that you will source cheap parts is frustrating, because if and when they fail the expectation is that you will change them with no charge for your time.
People don't appreciate that, when they hire some, they get access to all their tools (a considerable investment) and all their experience (50 years in my case).
I recently paid someone £45/hr to sort my pc out remotely. I couldn't do it, had to be done.
Conversly recently replaced a tap washer for a regular and didn't charge - seemed mean to do so. Only to get a call back after a week saying that the pipe had started banging since I did it. Return visit implied
In the UK, more than anywhere else, do people know the cost of everything and the value of nothing!
I did see the tongue in cheek element but also some seriousness in the mentions of £10 and £20.
We've had many posts in here protesting about entirely reasonable bike shop charges, the last one only very recently protesting about a £10 charge for what the OP thought a 15 minute job. Quite how he would know that if he wasn't able to do the job himself wasn't explained.
My first job in life was a motor mechanic, which for some odd reason meant friends, relatives and neighbours thought all I wanted to do at weekends was work on their cars, for nothing. Of course the same is experienced by those in other occupations that might benefit their acquaintances.
So yes, it is a subject that can very justifiably touch a nerve in me. It often seems to me that we have a population of cheapjacks who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
P.S. Post crossed with Daniel's, we both ended the same way!
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The older you get the more you notice the changes.. in my earlier life if your washer, cooker, sink, taps ,doors windows etc needed a spare part you just went to the appropriate outlet and a man behind the counter rooted around in his boxes of many things and found the bit you wanted. Buying new was not an option because most things were too high a percentage of most people's income so repair was the order of the day.
Now most things, particularly white goods, have become relatively cheap whilst repairs have become more expensive so bin it and buy another is the new order of the day.
Now most things, particularly white goods, have become relatively cheap whilst repairs have become more expensive so bin it and buy another is the new order of the day.
For those who can do the repairs themselves, that is an option, since it's surprising how much spares are available for even old equipment. My experiences have included all spares available from stock for an Indesit washing machine, even when it was 27 years old, and foils and blades for an over 20 year old electric shaver.
A quick Google search soon shows spares specialists in various fields.
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Ah yes, I may be a dinasour but my outlook is more up to date, well not totally as you can never be "up to date". Point being that a lot of things bought now are just not repairable and are designed to be thrown away and replaced. If evrything made now lasted as long as those of yesteryear a lot of manufacturers wouldnt make as much money as they do .. As an example.. I bought an expensive sony bluetooth headset, the tiny ones that are just a band around your head, and after I allowed them to become discharged for an extended period they wouldnt recharge..
As they were now £100 worth of scrap I decided to investigate and found that..
1/ They were never meant to be opened up.
2/ The small battery inside was in fact chinese.
3/ After much searching I found one in China for £1.50 including shipping, but when it came it didnt work either.
In conclusion.. The lifetime of gadgets and small apliances are not what they used to be and may even be designed to fail after a relatively short time, and as the young of today have never experienced white goods lasting 10 or 20 years, they think its acceptable, normal even..
Well thats my morning coffee and Sunday rant out of the way, so will make the wifes breakfast and get on with my day..
Three and a half years ago I met my GF and warned her that my appartement was full of washing machine bits because the bearings had gone. Had to change the whole drum because the bearings are permanently press fitted and a special tool would have meant it was cheaper to change the washing machine. As it was the repair man spent untold un-billed hours removing another press fitted part from the drum with a big hammer and a vice which I don't have (yet).
Those bearings are shot again 3 years 6 months on. I think after 6 years use and two drums I will be upgrading to a new washing machine. I do remember the 35 year old ones of yesteryear, however the new ones do save quite a bit of money on water use and electricity as I only buy A+ or higher rated.
Those bearings are shot again 3 years 6 months on. I think after 6 years use and two drums I will be upgrading to a new washing machine. I do remember the 35 year old ones of yesteryear, however the new ones do save quite a bit of money on water use and electricity as I only buy A+ or higher rated.